I-66 Expansion INSIDE the Beltway (Arlington, Manassas: transfer to, neighborhood, live in)

[Hudlander]

Leaving aside the legally non-binding "Coleman" resolution, I don't get why at least:

1) 66 is 2 lanes each way from the Beltway to the Arlington County line, since "Coleman" only applies to Arlington.

2) Why VDOT is so stupid as to massively expand outside the beltway but pretend peak hour HOT 3 tolls is sufficient inside the beltway.

Do they not realize 66 sucks inside the beltway at
-Nights/weekends/off peak
-Reverse commute

That the 66-267 merge is a mess and that we have enough median space to make 66 3-4 lanes from the Beltway to the Bridge?

It's so infuriating.

[gomason]

1) 66 East is 3 lanes from the beltway to the last exit in Fairfax County (69) and 66 West is 3 lanes from the first exit in Fairfax County (68) to the Dulles Toll Road. There really is no need to have three lanes on 66 west between the toll road and 495 because that's never congested unless traffic further west backs up for miles.

2) What do you mean by sufficient? I'm confident traffic would flow freely with HOT/HOV3+ inside the beltway. It moves pretty freely already with HOV2+. I assume you want more free travel lanes inside the beltway. There definitely isn't room for 4 lanes each way - there is the Patrick Henry Drive overpass which could barely probably be widened to 3 lanes.

Personally, I agree with you that there should be 3 lanes each way and make them HOT lanes during rush hour. The VDOT plans call for 3 lanes each way between the beltway and glebe road between 2025 and 2040. You have to put this in the political context though and Arlington will never agree to those 3 lanes unless VDOT shows that they are expanding transit and trying to limit single-occupant drivers. They definitely have some merit to that though because Transurban touted potential expanded bus service on 95 and 495 with the new HOT lanes that didn't really materialize. Also, having a Democratic Governor right now is going to make it very hard for Arlington to tell him no, so I'm hopeful. If it were a Republican Governor, they would probably be a lot less likely to try to compromise.

I hate our Arlington board FYI. They're against everything. Against widening 395 and 66 because they support smart growth. Then they say the Columbia Pike Streetcar and its smart growth would cost too much. So basically they have no plan and make the Republican Congress look productive.

[Fallout Zone]

Eastbound needs to have a spot improvement from Sycamore to Glebe going three lanes which some how includes the 267 merge ending up going from 4 to 3 instead of 4 to 2. Inside Glebe, I don't see much point in going wider since the bridge and DC are going to end up being choke points if the road is expanded.

Westbound still has trouble at the end of the 3rd lane at Sycamore. If there was a way to continue with three lanes west past the Sycamore exit to hook up with the now 4 lanes (two for 66 and two for 267), that would be the best. No need to go more than 2 west on 66 after Rt. 7.

I think the tolls are going to end up being astronomical when they go HOT/HOV-3. It'll be interesting to see what happens to the alternate arteries in Arlington. Will the tolls draw more people off of Lee Hwy/Wash Blvd or will the former HOV2 riders (like me) add to the local neighborhood traffic.

[gomason]

Originally Posted by Fallout Zone

I think the tolls are going to end up being astronomical when they go HOT/HOV-3. It'll be interesting to see what happens to the alternate arteries in Arlington. Will the tolls draw more people off of Lee Hwy/Wash Blvd or will the former HOV2 riders (like me) add to the local neighborhood traffic.

There are potentially thousands of single-occupant riders who could be drawn to buses with the addition of HOT lanes outside of the beltway which is another variable. There will be free flowing direct bus service between Western Prince William (maybe express Fairfax connector buses too?) and downtown DC for the first time ala the 95/395 corridor.

Currently, there's very little incentive for people to get on a bus and sit in a clogged HOV lane that is slower than the other lanes.

[Zack]

There isn't much value in adding buses on I-66 inside the beltway since the metro already runs along much of I-66 and I-267 and there's a major bus terminal at West Falls Church, Vienna, and Weihle metro stops.

The HOT lanes would be good to get the lanes free flowing so that those who value that trip can use the route. There are studies that show that free flowing lanes move more traffic than jammed lanes, so getting rid of the jams may increase overall throughput.

There is room for 3 lanes each way until the Glebe exit (and maybe exit 72) without any taking of property. That would add 50% capacity to the corridor and give Arlington residents an easier way to get to jobs in Tysons and along the Dulles Toll Road.

[gomason]

Originally Posted by Zack

There isn't much value in adding buses on I-66 inside the beltway since the metro already runs along much of I-66 and I-267 and there's a major bus terminal at West Falls Church, Vienna, and Weihle metro stops.

There is a lot of value for people who live in Western PWC. A bus in HOT lanes from Manassas to Foggy Bottom could get there in 35-40 minutes. That would be about 50 minutes if people had to transfer to Metro at Vienna. Also, you can't underestimate the attractiveness of a one seat ride for many commuters.

There's less value for Western Fairfax commuters but there's precedent for overlapping transit. The Fairfax Connector runs an express bus from Springfield to the Pentagon even though that completely duplicates the transit already available on the Blue and Yellow Lines.

[Zack]

Originally Posted by gomason

There is a lot of value for people who live in Western PWC. A bus in HOT lanes from Manassas to Foggy Bottom could get there in 35-40 minutes. That would be about 50 minutes if people had to transfer to Metro at Vienna. Also, you can't underestimate the attractiveness of a one seat ride for many commuters.

There's less value for Western Fairfax commuters but there's precedent for overlapping transit. The Fairfax Connector runs an express bus from Springfield to the Pentagon even though that completely duplicates the transit already available on the Blue and Yellow Lines.

I don't see a bus getting from Manassas to Foggy Bottom in 35 minutes during rush hour even with HOT lanes both inside and outside the beltway. That bus still has to cross the TR bridge and wind through DC traffic, not to mention deal with 234 or 28 traffic to get to I-66.

Overlapping transit is a poor use of limited resources. Transit efficiency improves from volume, so funneling that volume better and faster should be the priority, not opening up duplicate options. If riders want one seat options from western PWC, they should cover the full costs of them, and divert the transit subsidies to core routes that everyone uses.

[e2ksj3]

Originally Posted by gomason

There is a lot of value for people who live in Western PWC. A bus in HOT lanes from Manassas to Foggy Bottom could get there in 35-40 minutes. That would be about 50 minutes if people had to transfer to Metro at Vienna. Also, you can't underestimate the attractiveness of a one seat ride for many commuters.

There's less value for Western Fairfax commuters but there's precedent for overlapping transit. The Fairfax Connector runs an express bus from Springfield to the Pentagon even though that completely duplicates the transit already available on the Blue and Yellow Lines.

In theory isn't the current HOV suppose to do that? Yet when I've used them they often are just as slow as the main lanes. I don't think a conversion from HOV to HOT will make a huge improvement for buses. I think a better option would be improved rail service but I'm sure the powers to be will expand 66 much like they did with 95. The jury is still out on those. I'm curious how they will hold up with all the summer travel along the 95 corridor.

[gomason]

Originally Posted by e2ksj3

In theory isn't the current HOV suppose to do that? Yet when I've used them they often are just as slow as the main lanes. I don't think a conversion from HOV to HOT will make a huge improvement for buses. I think a better option would be improved rail service but I'm sure the powers to be will expand 66 much like they did with 95. The jury is still out on those. I'm curious how they will hold up with all the summer travel along the 95 corridor.

They are planning on adding an HOV lane and increasing the HOV requirement to three people. People will be driving 70 MPH in these HOT lanes in 2022.

[e2ksj3]

Originally Posted by Zack

I don't see a bus getting from Manassas to Foggy Bottom in 35 minutes during rush hour even with HOT lanes both inside and outside the beltway. That bus still has to cross the TR bridge and wind through DC traffic, not to mention deal with 234 or 28 traffic to get to I-66.

Overlapping transit is a poor use of limited resources. Transit efficiency improves from volume, so funneling that volume better and faster should be the priority, not opening up duplicate options. If riders want one seat options from western PWC, they should cover the full costs of them, and divert the transit subsidies to core routes that everyone uses.

Exactly & we see that now with merge on 495 headed towards the American legion bridge & on the 95 express lanes at Garrisonville Road in Stafford. Keep in mind these lanes just recently opened, imagine what the backups will look like 10 or even 5 years from now when more people move into the area. The same issue will happen on 66. I understand the need to widen roads at time but it can't be only solution for solving the traffic issues in this area.