Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
My god, I went on 50 west to Aldie (the REAL Aldie, the village, not the fake one everybody now suddenly claims to live), it really made me sad.
Back in 1998, I took my first drive in the fall out west to Loudoun.
We entered Braddock as it became a dirt road, drove on Poland road where a stop sign is all that stood between Poland and Route 50.
After South Riding BLVD, you were in the sticks.
Nothing but open fields, woods, oh and BJ's crab shack.
Gum Spring road? A stop sign only.
Stone Ridge?
Just woods and fields.
You passed the sign as the road went for 2 to 1 lane in each direction for a Phone; I couldn't believe Route 50, the ugly, neon blighted road just 10 miles west became so pretty.
As the years went by, little by little the bucolic beauty eroded; but it still was there in the picture.
Braddock was unpaved, then in 2005 it was paved to near Gum Spring.
Stone Ridge grew, but was just a fortress, an outpost.
Past South Riding, you had open fields, then Stone Ridge, then plain rural.
The last time I went out here was in the spring of 2012.
There was just one segment left of Braddock Road unpaved, right at the intersection with Lightridge Farm road, 705.
There was a small farm at the junction, and further down, another farm with cattle and power lines in the front yard.
I passed a driver, the only other car, and received a warm, friendly wave from a stranger.
Today I drove down here, and was devastated. Loudoun County did a horrible job of protecting their citizens, the one's who lived there before 2000. Bought and sold has all of Dulles South been.
Aldie, once a quiet village, is just an artifact, corrupted by the light pollution and traffic spilling over from east of Route 15; not much different than what Clifton is to Western Fairfax County.
This was the first time I ever drove on 50 to Gilberts Corner where it really did not feel rural at all.
Even when 50 becomes 1 lane in each direction, it seems Lenah is getting Centreville'd as homes on both sides of the road stand before new clearing.
As the Bull Run Mountains made there way into the foreground, at first it was open fields, then fields with signs directing one to new houses, and now? Aside from the last mile east of 15, total development.
It's very sad a very nice area was developed into such an ugyl, and shall I shall, snobby rich community.
There a million ways to grow, this did not have to be one of them.
Thank you Toll Brothers, Ryan Homes, and Loudoun BOS for selling out Dulles South like it was some 3rd world Banana Republic.
Big thanks to Steve Snow; whose arrogant, short sighted corruptness exponentially nailed the coffin as his lasting legacy.
P.S. What happened to that nice, small farm at Lightridge Farm Road and Braddock Road? It's gone; as is the farm with fence, hill, and power line just west.
You can't seriously claim there isn't economic prosperity in Northern Virginia, by both world and American standards. If there wasn't, people would stop coming and all this growth people are complaining about would stop.
It's at least arguable that wages double what you'd make back home are only so great if housing prices are triple whatever they are back home. BUT -- relocating to a lower-wage city is something you have to really think through.
You won't be able to just quit a job because someone looked at you funny or you feel "your career is stagnating." It's a medium to major undertaking to switch high-skilled jobs in a smaller metro. A layoff may mean the bust of your entire enterprise.
I'm guessing there's fewer people able to muddle through on $60-$120k a year and largely pushing papers around than in a larger metro.
The rewards are higher. If you can buy a $500k house in Pittsburgh, you can live in Mount Lebanon or Squirrel Hill -- which is like living in North Arlington, Bethesda, or AU Park in this area in terms of school, amenities, etc. In most of the South you can live in a top-notch suburb on that sort of $$$.
$500k gets you a 60-year old SFH in mid-Fairfax or a 20-year-old SFH in eastern Loudoun.
Of course then you start getting a cycle, where high wage employers drive up prices, the presence of high skilled people draws more high wage employers, then high skilled people decide they want to be in an area that they can find other jobs should their current job ends, then housing prices get higher, then working/moderate wage people who don't qualify for government assistance either live 10 to a house or get flung out to 90+ minutes away, etc., etc.
Why would you infill Clifton? It has terrible connectivity to the rest of the region- 2-lane roads and no transit, and it's further from Tysons than West Fairfax/East Loudoun. If you infill Clifton, you get even worse transportation issues.
As long as we have population growth and demand for single-family homes, we'll have sprawl. Hopefully we have less of it if transit-oriented development takes hold, but it's unrealistic to expect all greenfield development to just stop.
Heh. Aldie has AWFUL connectivity.
You have Dulles airport to the north blocking up N-S routes.
To the south you have the protected watershed, the E you have the "rural-like" part of Fairfax County.
It would have been MUCH more smart and logical for all to have re-directed the growth in Aldie towards Clifton which is closer to transit, the job market, and has infrastructure in place that could be expanded.
What I HATE is this checkboard development.
So West and South Fairfax are very low density, but SE Loudoun is like Centreville/Chantilly.
These incongruent land uses are killing us.
This is why this State or Local government does not work, it would be much better if localities were better coordinated regionally because when Steve Snow choose to sell out Dulles South, the externaltieis where felt well beyond his district.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stpickrell
My family has been in the Shenandoah Valley for the past 180 years. Does this mean I get to live in whatever type of house I want or overrule any of your opinions (unless you can prove a deeper tie to the area than me, in which case, I have to skulk off to the side and accept my status as a newcomer?)
Must rural areas be kept in permanent statis for the enjoyment of you and other urbanites, and be kept frozen in terms of economic activity and housing?
I suspect most of the actual natives (like myself) of these areas don't mind growth as much as recent arrivistes who want the door shut behind them as soon as they show up.
As for the MI deduction, folks in $800k rowhouses in Logan Circle, $1.2MM homes in McLean/Potomac, and $600k ramblers in Vienna, get more of that than the owners of a $325k townhouse in South Riding.
i.e. why are my tax dollars subsidizing your hipster urban lifestyle?
Really? You want to play that attitude with me on this issue.
This is one of the problems when having the developement/growth discussion, you deal with uneducated people, and they see things as "All or Nothing".
I understand that NOVA is growing, we have new residences, and they need housing.
This accept.
What I object to is the god awful sprawl and development that has occurred.
This isn't a debate over "Freeze it in 1980."
No, it's about how the growth was poorly managed, leading to more sprawl.
Infill and redeveloplements with existing infrastructure SHOULD come first.
ONCE that is filled up, THEN you move further out to the next parcels, and you develope it as needed.
The way NoVA and Loudoun go, you just grab grab grab land N/S/E/W and claim it as "mine."
This isn't putting the community first, this is putting the developers first, because it is much more sexy to "abandon" the older suburbs and build 4,000 sq foot McMansions.
Somebody getting a 325 townhouse in South Riding isn't the issue (and btw...you can't get that price).
Take a look at the housing stock in Aldie/Dulles South.
This is not affordable housing.
These are McMansions.
RG III LIVES in Dulles South ok, this is all a guise and we, the residents, lose.
I don't have a hipster lifestyle.
I'm fine if I can get 2500 sq foot house, with a few acres, that don't overlook or have the blight/noise of some yuppie subdivision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynchburgLover
OP: You seem to forget that someone owns that land that you like to look at. He has worked it and has paid taxes on it for however many years.
Doesn't the farmer who owns the land and wants to leave something to his/her children have the right to sell that land to the developer? How is it different that the person who builds a plumbing company or small manufacturing company. They get to sell or leave it to their heirs. The farmer's equity is in the land.
If you want to see permanent open land, go buy a couple hundred acres in Warren or Clarke or wherever and leave it in your will as designated open space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesky
You can't seriously claim there isn't economic prosperity in Northern Virginia, by both world and American standards. If there wasn't, people would stop coming and all this growth people are complaining about would stop.
You are totally wrong.
First, growth will happen, but it does not have to happen the Steve Snow way.
Did you think East Aldie (Fake Aldie) looked better in 2000 or today?
Was Gum Spring Road nicer than?
Yes, it was a lot nicer than it is now with luxury townhomes, McMansions, and Strip malls.
It didn't have to develop this way.
They could have built 2500 sq foot houses east of Gum Spring, they could have "fitted" new development to the current setting, instead of basically invading Dulles and paving over EVERYTHING.
Oh, and for the farmer?
Yeh, let me tell you his story.
So this farmer has owned the house and property since the 50s.
He's been able to support his family on the land and enjoy the small town.
Then he gets new neighbors who whine about the smell of cow manure, who honk their horn at his tractor on the road, who tear down his backyard trees for their HOA pools which he and the other longtime residents are not allowed to use.
His town is now been overtaken by yuppies.
Then he gets the property tax bill; he cannot afford to farm here anymore.
Thet taxes are too high, and besides, the bucolic country has been invaded by hositle yuppies....he has to flee like a refugee from his native community.
Who is looking out for those folks?
Nobody.
The Toll Brothers and Co have convinced you this is market forces in the guise of progress.
How about we take away the home mortgage deduction and let the REAL market forces then determine what's wanted?
OP: It happens. My parent's first house close in purchased in the early 1950s for $50,000 now sells for a million or more. Tall apartment buildings line the main roads and what was once "far out" suburbs is now quite urban in look and feel. But, as an heir, I was quite tickled with the appreciation of that little house; just like the heirs of that farmer will be.
I'm sorry you are bitter but nothing in life is constant except chance.
OP: It happens. My parent's first house close in purchased in the early 1950s for $50,000 now sells for a million or more. Tall apartment buildings line the main roads and what was once "far out" suburbs is now quite urban in look and feel. But, as an heir, I was quite tickled with the appreciation of that little house; just like the heirs of that farmer will be.
I'm sorry you are bitter but nothing in life is constant except chance.
Exactly.
This area, specifically -- Loudoun, Fairfax, Arlington, Prince William etc it was destined to have unexpected growth not only because of its proximity to D.C. but also the job market inside D.C. and NoVA itself. It was only so long it was going to stay rural.
Of course I wish they would have developed the area better and more strategically but they realized they could throw houses up literally anywhere in those counties and at a high price and not only would they sell but they would sell quickly so it's not really surprising.
Heh. Aldie has AWFUL connectivity.
You have Dulles airport to the north blocking up N-S routes.
To the north of Aldie? Maybe to the north of South Riding.
Since all the traffic is E-W anyway, not sure why the N-S routes would matter all that much.
Quote:
To the south you have the protected watershed, the E you have the "rural-like" part of Fairfax County.
Directly to the east of Aldie, you have Chantilly. Chantilly is rural-like?
Quote:
It would have been MUCH more smart and logical for all to have re-directed the growth in Aldie towards Clifton which is closer to transit, the job market, and has infrastructure in place that could be expanded.
Clifton is not close to transit whatsoever, and there are no major arterials anywhere near it. What is the infrastructure in Clifton that would be easily expanded?
Aldie is right on 50. Land near major arterials is the low-hanging fruit of sprawl expansion.
Quote:
What I HATE is this checkboard development.
So West and South Fairfax are very low density, but SE Loudoun is like Centreville/Chantilly.
These incongruent land uses are killing us.
There's definitely some "checkerboarding" in the region, like South Fairfax County vs. North Prince William County, for example, but South Riding/Aldie isn't it. This is development in a straight line, right along 50. It's actually easier to do transit in a straight line corridor like this if it densifies.
Quote:
So this farmer has owned the house and property since the 50s.
He's been able to support his family on the land and enjoy the small town.
Then he gets new neighbors who whine about the smell of cow manure, who honk their horn at his tractor on the road, who tear down his backyard trees for their HOA pools which he and the other longtime residents are not allowed to use.
His town is now been overtaken by yuppies.
Then he gets the property tax bill; he cannot afford to farm here anymore.
Thet taxes are too high, and besides, the bucolic country has been invaded by hositle yuppies....he has to flee like a refugee from his native community.
Who is looking out for those folks?
Nobody.
That's a good sob story, but the real version goes more like:
Farmer sells land to developers, gets a huge pay day. His kids don't want to farm, so even if the farmer keeps it until he dies, the land gets sold off eventually anyway.
Why would you infill Clifton? It has terrible connectivity to the rest of the region- 2-lane roads and no transit, and it's further from Tysons than West Fairfax/East Loudoun. If you infill Clifton, you get even worse transportation issues.
As long as we have population growth and demand for single-family homes, we'll have sprawl. Hopefully we have less of it if transit-oriented development takes hold, but it's unrealistic to expect all greenfield development to just stop.
You have to have five acres to build one house in Clifton. It's the law. And the folks down there have the dough to make sure that it REMAINS the law....
OP: It happens. My parent's first house close in purchased in the early 1950s for $50,000 now sells for a million or more. Tall apartment buildings line the main roads and what was once "far out" suburbs is now quite urban in look and feel. But, as an heir, I was quite tickled with the appreciation of that little house; just like the heirs of that farmer will be.
I'm sorry you are bitter but nothing in life is constant except chance.
I'm upset that the citizens of Loudoun/NoVA have allowed their poltiicans and community leaders to sell them out under some kind of "progress" guise when in fact they've defaced the hollowed piedmont with the worst kind of development, income disparity, aesthics, possible that WE the residents and taxpayers have to deal with daily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVA_guy
Exactly.
This area, specifically -- Loudoun, Fairfax, Arlington, Prince William etc it was destined to have unexpected growth not only because of its proximity to D.C. but also the job market inside D.C. and NoVA itself. It was only so long it was going to stay rural.
Of course I wish they would have developed the area better and more strategically but they realized they could throw houses up literally anywhere in those counties and at a high price and not only would they sell but they would sell quickly so it's not really surprising.
It is frustrating when people simply regard this, growth, as some sort of natural progression.
We consume more land and sq ft. per capita than ever before, we have communities that have no sense of community or place, Dulles South USED to have an identity, but the first subdivision that went up for yuppies quickly took over the territory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by car54
You have to have five acres to build one house in Clifton. It's the law. And the folks down there have the dough to make sure that it REMAINS the law....
Yes, and this pushes sprawl further west, and drives up the cost of housing.
I'd rather trade the townhomes of Dulles south to Clifton.
To the north of Aldie? Maybe to the north of South Riding.
Since all the traffic is E-W anyway, not sure why the N-S routes would matter all that much.
Wrong, having poor access N and S means
-Everybody has to take the same way to Dulles/Ashburn/Sterling
Directly to the east of Aldie, you have Chantilly. Chantilly is rural-like?
Clifton is not close to transit whatsoever, and there are no major arterials anywhere near it. What is the infrastructure in Clifton that would be easily expanded?
Aldie is right on 50. Land near major arterials is the low-hanging fruit of sprawl expansion. Are you kidding me? Do you ever look at the LEGEND of a map?
Route 50 was and still is, past Gum Spring Road, a country road.
It's not a major arterial highway.
Clifton, VA is proximate to 495/66/123/286/Metro AND has VRE running right through.
It is also surrounded by developed communities.
It makes no sense to have townhomes, large subdivisions 20 miles further west.
There's definitely some "checkerboarding" in the region, like South Fairfax County vs. North Prince William County, for example, but South Riding/Aldie isn't it. This is development in a straight line, right along 50. It's actually easier to do transit in a straight line corridor like this if it densifies.
Really? Is that why Route 50/Braddock Road have constant gridlock?
So it would be easier to build a whole new community from scratch at least 10 miles away from an interstate than to infill an area proximate to freeways?
That's a good sob story, but the real version goes more like:
Farmer sells land to developers, gets a huge pay day. His kids don't want to farm, so even if the farmer keeps it until he dies, the land gets sold off eventually anyway.
More like person buys a 2200 sq ft house with a few acres. Enjoys the countryside and peace.
Subdivision gets built next door, traffic clogs the roadway, the peaceful backyard now is a vista to a parking lot.
Person can't afford the taxes, but with just a few acres, if they sell, they can't move any closer to work.
Ask the people who live on Braddock Road in Dulles South if they were better off 15 years ago.
Who representedthem vs. who represented Toll Brothers?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
