Could Silver Line Cause Tysons Parking Problems?

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by JEB77

I One way they can do that is to persuade those who live in nearby communities that there's nothing in it for them but inconvenience and new condos for 20-somethings and empty-nesters. .

what annandale and burke and Springfield and clifton will get from the new tysons

A. a growing employment center close to them

B. Tax revenues for FFX county, which will help to pay for services, esp the school system. Which are important to those neighborhoods - and I guess also to Mclean and Vienna?

Thats why Tysons is being transformed. Its important to the whole county. not just to those who will live there. To endanger that, to create Park and rides for a few DC commuters in low density neighborhoods, would be foolish.

really, if that was the goal of the Silver line, it would have more sense to build a new metro line parallel to I395 instead. At least here we have much higher density, and a very congested highway.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by FC Merrifield

Again, I was being sarcastic so whether it's FFX county or WMATA isn't really the point. And if WMATA wanted to own their own parking lots around their stations, wouldn't that be part of "planning issues"? Unless you're saying that WMATA has no input on metro parking.

you expressed doubt as to whether Tysons would actually transform. Thats something WMATA has no control over - its FFX's baby.

As for metro parking, I doubt WMATA would do it over the opposition of the FFX BOS - and Im not sure they could.

[JD984]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

what annandale and burke and Springfield and clifton will get from the new tysons

A. a growing employment center close to them

B. Tax revenues for FFX county, which will help to pay for services, esp the school system. Which are important to those neighborhoods - and I guess also to Mclean and Vienna?

Thats why Tysons is being transformed. Its important to the whole county. not just to those who will live there. To endanger that, to create Park and rides for a few DC commuters in low density neighborhoods, would be foolish.

really, if that was the goal of the Silver line, it would have more sense to build a new metro line parallel to I395 instead. At least here we have much higher density, and a very congested highway.

I guess we'll have to wait and see how the county - and the market - respond to the opening of the new stations.

[FC Merrifield]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

you expressed doubt as to whether Tysons would actually transform. Thats something WMATA has no control over - its FFX's baby.

As for metro parking, I doubt WMATA would do it over the opposition of the FFX BOS - and Im not sure they could.

So maybe they would? And maybe they could?

And conversely, if WMATA was opposed to putting metro in Tysons, would FFX BOS have been able to overrule them? WMATA would have no say over this?

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by FC Merrifield

So maybe they would? And maybe they could?

And conversely, if WMATA was opposed to putting metro in Tysons, would FFX BOS have been able to overrule them? WMATA would have no say over this?

1. parking lots - I dont know if they could. Zoning issues, I suppose, could ban a free standing parking garage. Not sure if the new tysons plan does that. Would they - no. The logic of putting parking at the end of the route is strong, and they certainly wouldnt go to war against a County over that

2. I know of no instance where a county opposed the building of a metro. The way these things go is that the local Metropolitan Planning Organization (the MPO) makes a priority list, with input from local govts. Had FFX said no, its most unlikely MWCOG (our local MPO) would have put the silver line on the list, and unlikely it would have gotten Fed or state dollars - plus it needed FFX dollars. The line isnt even being constructed by WMATA, but by MWAA. This really is NOT a WMATA initiative. They have very little say - its their job to OPERATE the trains. And there is of course NoVa representation on the WMATA board

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

Short term, theres not much they can do to stop temporary parking, as people can park at the mall. And IIUC the BOS has decided to deliberately allow temp parking, as the political ruckus with Mclean and Vienna is not worth it, and the roadway LOS isnt at failure just yet. And unlike TE, they seem confident that parking once given, can be taken away at a later stage.

Look at the fervor that is made anytime parking is reduced. At the Dunn Loring metro IIUC they had to INCREASE structural parking from the existing surface lots just to appease the masses. You think in the future Tysons will be able to reduce parking spaces at the metro? You havent lived in the suburbs long enough

Once it is made, it will remain in perpetuity, thats what the BoS is not coming to terms with and the only reason I am against what would otherwise be reasonable. If they created terms that stated the parking would be removed by 2018 or something (with Phase II opening) then I might buy in, but that kind of statement is still only as good as the political moment dictates in 2018.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

Look at the fervor that is made anytime parking is reduced. At the Dunn Loring metro IIUC they had to INCREASE structural parking from the existing surface lots just to appease the masses. You think in the future Tysons will be able to reduce parking spaces at the metro? You havent lived in the suburbs long enough

1. Dunn Loring - Merrifield, even at full build out, will not come close to being the type of urban centers planned for Tysons. Maybe thats why the county officially calls it a "suburban center"

2. A. Those lots were originally established as "permanent" lots, not temporary. So they naturally be seen differently 2B. despite 2A, IIUC the lots to be built on at EFC will not be replaced spot for spot. Only the VDOT spots will be retained, and thats due to VDOT policy

3. I have lived in the suburbs quite long enough, thank you

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by JEB77

I guess we'll have to wait and see how the county - and the market - respond to the opening of the new stations.

indeed. Im surprised developers are moving so aggressively with office heavy projects there, already, given regional office vacancy rates. I guess they think transit accessible brand new class A space will still fill. We will see.

Certainly if not much gets built there, this will look like a boondoggle. If not much new office space gets built (beyond whats already UC) and a lot of new apts go up for single 20 somethings and empty nesters (and probably also childless young DINKs, and young couples with babies willing to wait to move to a house, as well and 30 and 40 something singles as well) it will not be the big boost the BOS thinks, but will still generate a lot or revenue.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

indeed. Im surprised developers are moving so aggressively with office heavy projects there, already, given regional office vacancy rates. I guess they think transit accessible brand new class A space will still fill. We will see.

Certainly if not much gets built there, this will look like a boondoggle. If not much new office space gets built (beyond whats already UC) and a lot of new apts go up for single 20 somethings and empty nesters (and probably also childless young DINKs, and young couples with babies willing to wait to move to a house, as well and 30 and 40 something singles as well) it will not be the big boost the BOS thinks, but will still generate a lot or revenue.

There is still a huge push to provide new GSA spaces for many departments who have outgrown Arlington, especially if lease rates are at a 20% discount. Beyond that, I agree. For instance Lerner still hasn't moved on residential components of Tysons II, even though the multi-fam market is on fire (literally gobbled up whenever new high end comes online) and instead are still keeping an empty pit at the location of 1775 waiting for commercial real estate to roar back. All the while, by delaying, they watched their competition across the street nearly fill out all of the speculative lease space at Tysons Tower.

The big projects are all planning on residential first (arbor row, Scotts Run, Spring hill already with 1 going to be 2 soon, and LCOR).