Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There's a corridor along highway 70 heading east with some development, from Smithfield to Goldsboro, etc. It's also possible to commute into the Triangle from certain areas in eastern North Carolina. I do feel bad for areas off the beaten path, though. The northeastern part of the state is a good example, it's way too rural and the proximity to Hampton Roads in Virginia can only do so much. Not to mention the entire Coastal Plain is largely agricultural, unlike the Piedmont which was industrialized with textiles and furniture manufacturing.
The western Piedmont is in a slightly better situation because it's sandwiched between Winston-Salem (or Charlotte) and the mountains. It doesn't feel quite as rural as the majority of eastern North Carolina, but it's true that it doesn't have the tourism for support, apart from the wineries in the Yadkin Valley. There are a handful of towns like Wilkesboro that are close to the mountains, but not close enough, if that makes sense.
Hickory/the Unifour has been landing a couple of solid eco-devo deals in recent years which bodes well for the region. And the casino in Kings Mountain is already drawing large crowds.
You could say the same of the western Piedmont. There is a belt of counties west of I-77 that are not close enough to the mountains to have easy views of them, or have that cachet as a retirement destination. They're generally flat-to-declining in population. When I drive through towns like Spindale or Lenoir, I sense the doldrums, the feeling that people are just making do, and there's no real prosperity there.
I would say it’s quite unlike the Western Piedmont. As the mountains get more and more expensive, many are choosing the foothills for their easy access to both the mountains and the cities in the Piedmont. The housing market (purchasing and renting) is incredibly tight in the Hickory/Morganton/Lenoir area. Jobs and industry still lag behind the Mountains (tourism) and Central Piedmont (industry) but growth has increased overall and is not really comparable to the far eastern Piedmont that is still more rural and agriculturally based.
I challenge you to do a google search on the Raleigh MSA. You will find the webpage under Wikipedia. You have to scroll down to the bottom of the page to find one sentence on the MSA and its counties. But it is mentioned several times above the nine counties and the population of the CSA. Yes, other metros have additional counties added to the metro. But I have never found it so hard to find the one sentence info on the MSA. Once I found it the info was vague. It is obvious deception. I guarantee if you were to go to the Columbia Wikipedia page on the Columbia MSA, you would easily be able to find the counties in the Columbia MSA and CSA and the population. I think that Raleigh is the one with the identity problem. I do not think they like the fact that the Charlotte MSA is over twice the size of Raleigh's and the CSA is 1.3 times the size of Raleigh's CSA. People in Charlotte have absolutely no reason to be jealous of Raleigh. Why would we? But that is want Raleigh people want us to believe.
Charlotte is home to nine Fortune 500 companies and 18 Fortune 1,000 companies. We are a fast growing IT center, and the leading city for millennials to relocate from 2005-15. Charlotte has 3 pro sports franchises, NASCAR races, hosts of the ACC football championship, host of the Belk Bowl (about to be renamed), host to college football kickoff games, AAA baseball, host of ACC basketball tourney once in a while, has about half-dozen bar districts, a rapidly growing international community, the largest gay community between Washington and Atlanta. These are just a few of the reasons why people in Charlotte are not jealous of Raleigh.
This has turned too nasty for my liking. I feel guilty because I have been obnoxious. I want to apologize to all of the people in the Raleigh area. That is not my demeanor. I have written things that I have not felt comfortable writing. This conversation is going nowhere. I want to bow out. I hope that nobody else responds.
YouTube has plenty of videos from young people on roofs of buildings showing charlotte’s towers and they’re referring to it as the big city, although it doesn’t have the hustle and bustle and Ambient background noise as such.
It is very much ingrained into Charlotteans that being a big city & and acknowledged as such is important.
In Raleigh that is not the public sentiment.
It’s like being cool.
The harder you try the less successful you are in accomplishing it.
I’ve never seeen a city whose residents try so hard to get acknowledged as a big city.
I only brag about Raleigh when I see some misguided Western NC Charlotte proponent contend that it’s better and in a different league from the rest of the state.
So many I instances of delusion about the great state of NC from Charlotte.
I noticed that Cary in the CSA the name has been changed to Cary, and I made that adjustment. I know the Triangle name goes way back to at least the 1970s. But it is time to move on. It is time on the website to clearly show that there is the MSA with 3 counties and the CSA with 9 counties. They are hiding the MSA info and putting out front and center the CSA info, MSA is the standard. They have to include it because it is the Census clarification, but they hide it as much as possible. But these subtle things that they are doing is confusing the people that comment on this board and probably others. I also think that the N&O may help to create confusion. Understanding population data is not difficult at all, But I have found that few understand it on these forums and not just in Raleigh- it is widespread.
I do see that you understand. The CSA reflects the nine county metro, and the larger population. So, what is the big deal? Why don't people in the area just go with that. To me it makes no sense to argue about the MSA split. After all, it is what it is.
Raleigh is a great area, and is on all of the lists for great living. It is a wonderful place to raise a family. It is grow very rapidly. There is no reason for people to make a big deal of the MSA split. I have cousins that live there and they love it.
The bottom line is that this may not change for a long time if ever cause of the RTP being in Durham County. So it is better to just move on from it. I guess I am a stickler for Census protocol. I do not know about your media market. I will check it out. You guys have been high up the lists for years. Nothing would surprise me.
Last, I do not have an axe to grind with the people from Raleigh.
Your harping on the MSA metric because it fits your assertion of Charlotte being so big is as ridiculous and childish as…
If someone harped on the county populations to assert the was no difference in size of the two metros.
And until you can name the contributors to Wikipedia and verify whether or not they are associated with the city of Raleigh or Wake County or the chamber of commerce then any references to Wiki about hiding Raleigh’s MSA is utterly a waste of people’s time in reading it.
I suspect that they are all private citizens including some tech nerds who don’t even have a grasp of the area themselves.
Let me ask this: after living jn LA for 5 yrs., NYC for a decade, Boston for 2yrs, NJ for one, growing up in the triangle, and Atlanta for 14 years, if I come to Charlotte for 6 months.,,,
Will I get that special feeling of being in a big exciting city that’s fashionable, gay friendly and progressive?
Because it would be awesome to return to my beloved home state.
I can attest that Atlantans have the same big-city mentality as this living in NYC and LA. No difference whatsoever.
If that is possible in Charlotte I want to know.
But after being in downtown Raleigh this summer and seeing all the activity with people out walking and dining in the ultra cool glenwood and Peace street corridors that just blew me away with the substance and feel of the ambiance they had created,,,
It’s hard for me to believe that Raleigh and Wilmington aren’t the absolute coolest places in the state.
If I was 32 instead of 52 I would seriously consider moving back to Raleigh.
YouTube has plenty of videos from young people on roofs of buildings showing charlotte’s towers and they’re referring to it as the big city, although it doesn’t have the hustle and bustle and Ambient background noise as such.
It is very much ingrained into Charlotteans that being a big city & and acknowledged as such is important.
In Raleigh that is not the public sentiment.
It’s like being cool.
The harder you try the less successful you are in accomplishing it.
I’ve never seeen a city whose residents try so hard to get acknowledged as a big city.
I only brag about Raleigh when I see some misguided Western NC Charlotte proponent contend that it’s better and in a different league from the rest of the state.
So many I instances of delusion about the great state of NC from Charlotte.
You just had to remind us of that horrific Amazon HQ2 bid video. That was the most ridiculous, cringe worthy marketing piece that i've ever seen. I'm not going to even elaborate on the reasons why. It was just that bad.
I'm sure that it changed the view of Charlotte in Amazon's eyes forever.
Last edited by uncchgrad; 08-23-2021 at 09:12 PM..
Your harping on the MSA metric because it fits your assertion of Charlotte being so big is as ridiculous and childish as…
If someone harped on the county populations to assert the was no difference in size of the two metros.
And until you can name the contributors to Wikipedia and verify whether or not they are associated with the city of Raleigh or Wake County or the chamber of commerce then any references to Wiki about hiding Raleigh’s MSA is utterly a waste of people’s time in reading it.
I suspect that they are all private citizens including some tech nerds who don’t even have a grasp of the area themselves.
Let me ask this: after living jn LA for 5 yrs., NYC for a decade, Boston for 2yrs, NJ for one, growing up in the triangle, and Atlanta for 14 years, if I come to Charlotte for 6 months.,,,
Will I get that special feeling of being in a big exciting city that’s fashionable, gay friendly and progressive?
Because it would be awesome to return to my beloved home state.
I can attest that Atlantans have the same big-city mentality as this living in NYC and LA. No difference whatsoever.
If that is possible in Charlotte I want to know.
But after being in downtown Raleigh this summer and seeing all the activity with people out walking and dining in the ultra cool glenwood and Peace street corridors that just blew me away with the substance and feel of the ambiance they had created,,,
It’s hard for me to believe that Raleigh and Wilmington aren’t the absolute coolest places in the state.
If I was 32 instead of 52 I would seriously consider moving back to Raleigh.
I could pretty much live in any city that I want, but choose to spend most of my time living in Raleigh for this exact reason. The cool factor, attractiveness, positive energy, growth, and overall classiness is unmatched anywhere else in NC, and only seen in Atlanta, Miami, and to a certain extent Nashville in the southeast. People are happy here, and it shows in major ways.
I suspect that's why so many outsiders take cheap pot shots at Raleigh. They know that their cities suck in comparison.
Last edited by uncchgrad; 08-23-2021 at 08:37 PM..
The following is the condensed version of two posts by kcmo in the Kansas City vs Charlotte thread. In my opinion, kcmo always gives the most balanced and honest outsider's assessment of Charlotte's growth and progress.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo
Okay, so after yet another visit to Charlotte, I think I can now say that Charlotte has left KC in its dust. Like other cities before it which were once peers to KC (Denver, Atlanta, Minneapolis etc), Charlotte is now in a higher tier of cities.
I have been to Charlotte many times. I go about once every two years. In the past 20 years, I have watched the city go from a city I thought was far inferior to KC to a city that will probably be twice the size of KC in another 20 years. And the city is becoming quite urban.
That does not mean it's necessarily a better city or that I even like it more than KC, but as far as being relevant, having a growing economy, being progressive, investing in infrastructure etc, Charlotte has pulled ahead and is really starting to distant itself. All while KC is sort of trying to hang on as cities like Austin, Nashville, Vegas, Columbus and Indy are all right on its tail and will likely pass KC as well soon. Downtown (or uptown) and metro Charlotte now feels quite a bit larger than downtown or metro KC.
KC is STILL struggling badly with basic infrastructure. KC is finally getting a new airport terminal and man is that long overdue, but the city is basically building a bare bones terminal with just enough gates to accommodate local O/D traffic. It seems like KC has just totally missed the boat on being major midwestern hub or focus city by dragging their feet way too long on getting a new terminal built. But at least they will have something better than the current terminals.
Also, KC's basic infrastructure like sidewalks, lighting, city and state highways, bridges, parks, bike lanes etc are just not in the same league as most cities and Charlotte is no exception. Although KC has finally starting adding some nice cycle paths, they have a ways to go. The freeways around KC still feel dated, narrow and sometimes in really bad shape even though some of it has been rebuilt. Downtown and metro charlotte has a modern freeway system.
And Charlotte now has a pretty extensive starter light rail and streetcar system, a large downtown transit center etc. KC has a nice streetcar line but even once its expanded to the plaza the transit there will not compare to Charlotte's system.
Finally you have development. KC is growing modestly and has some nice infill, but KC's urban core is still growing much slower than most cities I visit, especially when it comes to office and hotel construction. Charlotte has some nice large corporate HQ buildings going even now. And Charlotte just has what seems like hundreds of new apartment developments and towers in every direction from the center of uptown. It's pretty incredible.
Having said all that. Legacy cities like KC are still more interesting to me. Charlotte just feels too "plastic" or something. It still lacks some major cultural attractions, architecture etc like KC has IMO. It's too "new". Traffic is much worse in the Charlotte metro etc. KC just has much better bones. It feels more like it has always been a big city and it still feels like a big city, but it's a slow growth city that doesn't change too much. Maybe that's a good thing. I don't want KC to add a million people. But I do want to see more corporate investment downtown, more investment period in infrastructure etc.
If anything, kcmo's honest statements about his slow-growth home town only highlights how fortunate we are in NC's growing cities. If the Triangle fails then Charlotte suffers. If Charlotte declines, then the Triangle will feel that pain. The two feed off of each other in more ways than most folks think. Those of us who run our own businesses know (especially y'all real estate folks).
The following is the condensed version of two posts by kcmo in the Kansas City vs Charlotte thread. In my opinion, kcmo always gives the most balanced and honest outsider's assessment of Charlotte's growth and progress.
As someone who has spent the last couple years traveling around the country but based in Charlotte, his comments are similar to what I've heard from others outside of NC. Honestly I was pretty surprised by how favorable the views were that people from other states had of Charlotte. Many praised it as being a great place with an amazing downtown, growing so fast, or as somewhere they would love to live themselves and settle down. I'll give Charlotte this, the way they're building and developing the Uptown and Southend areas in particular is nothing short of remarkable. They've even started and have planned for a light rail system in all directions from the center city. It seems they've learned from the mistakes of a place like Atlanta in this regard. It also helps that Charlotte completely dominates its metro area thanks to NC's old annexation laws so it's easier to get things done in terms of infrastructure when you don't have to deal with dozens of municipalities. Many similar sized metros could certainly learn a few things about urban growth and development in their downtown areas from what Charlotte has done in those places. Me personally I find Charlotte, and NC in general at this point a little too slow for my ambitions so I was a little shocked to hear such praise from people in much larger cities for this place. I guess those views and Charlotte's national reputation explain why the growth is so high right now. Looks like it won't be slowing down anytime soon.
Another note on what he said that I somewhat agree with is the part about being interesting. With all this explosive growth and huge influx of people from other states, Charlotte and NC just feel plain and bland in my opinion. Especially after seeing the rest of the country. NC cities are in a transitional state right now and their new identities are still emerging. It's a state that's adjusting from being dominated by small towns to now having two decent sized metro areas taking most of the attention, as evidenced by the bizarre decision to have its zoo in the middle of nowhere, aquariums far from the cities, and big empty freeways in the eastern part of the state. It's in a rare position where the most interesting parts of the state are outside the cities.
As someone who has spent the last couple years traveling around the country but based in Charlotte, his comments are similar to what I've heard from others outside of NC. Honestly I was pretty surprised by how favorable the views were that people from other states had of Charlotte. Many praised it as being a great place with an amazing downtown, growing so fast, or as somewhere they would love to live themselves and settle down. I'll give Charlotte this, the way they're building and developing the Uptown and Southend areas in particular is nothing short of remarkable. They've even started and have planned for a light rail system in all directions from the center city. It seems they've learned from the mistakes of a place like Atlanta in this regard. It also helps that Charlotte completely dominates its metro area thanks to NC's old annexation laws so it's easier to get things done in terms of infrastructure when you don't have to deal with dozens of municipalities. Many similar sized metros could certainly learn a few things about urban growth and development in their downtown areas from what Charlotte has done in those places. Me personally I find Charlotte, and NC in general at this point a little too slow for my ambitions so I was a little shocked to hear such praise from people in much larger cities for this place. I guess those views and Charlotte's national reputation explain why the growth is so high right now. Looks like it won't be slowing down anytime soon.
Another note on what he said that I somewhat agree with is the part about being interesting. With all this explosive growth and huge influx of people from other states, Charlotte and NC just feel plain and bland in my opinion. Especially after seeing the rest of the country. NC cities are in a transitional state right now and their new identities are still emerging. It's a state that's adjusting from being dominated by small towns to now having two decent sized metro areas taking most of the attention, as evidenced by the bizarre decision to have its zoo in the middle of nowhere, aquariums far from the cities, and big empty freeways in the eastern part of the state. It's in a rare position where the most interesting parts of the state are outside the cities.
You guys have to constantly post irrelevant, meaningless stuff to let everyone know just how important or special Charlotte is to outsiders, when someone points out anything negative about the city.
Why do you care so badly what other's think of your city and how it compares to peer and higher tier cities?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
