Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-03-2016, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Baltimore MD/Durham NC
530 posts, read 637,891 times
Reputation: 770

Advertisements

Quote:
Universities have turned into research beds and a large majority of "research" professors time is spent on writing proposals and pure research. Recently a state mandate was initiated to increase lecture load and student focus, it did not go over very well. They and the university make more money via research.
You make it sound as if this is some new and nebulous system. You realize that is their job?

When you get a PhD you are trained in how to conduct research (not how to teach). Then you can go on the job market and you get a tenure-track job off the strength of your past research and your research proposals. The university hires you because they want you to bring your research to their department. That is literally their job and how successful they are doing decides their promotion (making tenure).

Now many hires are also required to teach some classes as well (along with other department functions), but that is the secondary concern of their job. That is how the system works.

That is why there are liberal arts colleges and other non-research universities where they are set up so professors are hired because they are passionate about teaching and that is the focus of their career. But that is not what research universities are, this isn't new thing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-03-2016, 06:36 PM
 
3,866 posts, read 4,279,397 times
Reputation: 4532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atony View Post
You make it sound as if this is some new and nebulous system. You realize that is their job?

When you get a PhD you are trained in how to conduct research (not how to teach). Then you can go on the job market and you get a tenure-track job off the strength of your past research and your research proposals. The university hires you because they want you to bring your research to their department. That is literally their job and how successful they are doing decides their promotion (making tenure).

Now many hires are also required to teach some classes as well (along with other department functions), but that is the secondary concern of their job. That is how the system works.

That is why there are liberal arts colleges and other non-research universities where they are set up so professors are hired because they are passionate about teaching and that is the focus of their career. But that is not what research universities are, this isn't new thing.
I am in the biz and do understand the process, pros and cons but it's much more complex and convoluted nowadays as many research universities ramp-up on adjuncts versus hiring fulltime junior TT professors to instruct, research and provide student guidance. So TAs, GAs are fulfilling those roles; virtual and independent study courses, etc. Who the hell knows who is grading what in certain cases.

Also, tenured research professors are usually required to teach a minimum of two courses per semester with the luxury to instruct more courses based on schedule flexibility. Not anymore, priority is money....big time academics, sports, etc. Not anything like 30 years ago.

https://newfaculty.wordpress.com/201...-universities/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2016, 07:15 AM
 
1,051 posts, read 1,598,937 times
Reputation: 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Aristotle View Post
It is not, all schools steer students and student athletes to these type of classes and still do. Lol, so the requirement is to submit two papers of high "quality" work instead of one to meet academic rigor. There are plenty of dumb ass white athletes at these "prestigious" institutions as well, doing a better job of hiding it though.


The joke of the matter is the NCAA and the so-called "student" athlete. The only reason it will continue at ALL institutions of higher learning is due to the big business that is CFB and CBB.
But you are wrong. Stanford, Miami, and many other schools you have to take regular classes and meet min. GPA. This was wide spread through the sports teams and AA studies faculty for around 20 years. This wasn't a single coach, a single player, or a single student this was over 3000 students and around 15 classes. That isn't rogue or not a big deal. I will say the NCAA doesn't care about students at all they care about money. If this happened at another school that didn't have the UNC name that school would possibly get the death penalty for lack of institutional control. This is academic fraud and not just a year or two or letting some kid with a 1.9gpa play either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2016, 08:07 AM
 
3,866 posts, read 4,279,397 times
Reputation: 4532
Quote:
Originally Posted by pumbaa View Post
But you are wrong. Stanford, Miami, and many other schools you have to take regular classes and meet min. GPA. This was wide spread through the sports teams and AA studies faculty for around 20 years. This wasn't a single coach, a single player, or a single student this was over 3000 students and around 15 classes. That isn't rogue or not a big deal. I will say the NCAA doesn't care about students at all they care about money. If this happened at another school that didn't have the UNC name that school would possibly get the death penalty for lack of institutional control. This is academic fraud and not just a year or two or letting some kid with a 1.9gpa play either.

It isn't academic fraud but lack of academic ethics or integrity. What you stated is academic fraud when a player doesn't meet minimum requirements (GPA, etc) and is allowed to play sports. It was not widespread throughout the department or university. The NCAA has no jurisdiction as to assess the quality or rigor levels of a course. That is up to the accreditation organization (SACS, etc). If UNC did indeed allow players to participate without meeting NCAA requirements, that is indeed fraud. Or impermissible gifts, etc are violations. Then hammer the hell out of 'em but that hasn't been indicated from what I've seen.

Are you inferring that these type of courses don't exist at Stanford, Miami, etc? Are you even naïve enough to believe that. They all TAs, GAs, adjuncts, etc. So, now the requirement is to submit 2 papers instead of 1 and all is well or standards met. GTFO. It rampant at every school and why the NCAA will shy away from determining what qualifies as an A or D.

Certain universities have more stringent requirements but meeting minimum GPA isn't a daunting task else the entire system would crumble. They hardly have time to devote a lot study, just enough to get by, of course there are outliers that excel.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2016, 09:01 AM
 
1,051 posts, read 1,598,937 times
Reputation: 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Aristotle View Post
It isn't academic fraud but lack of academic ethics or integrity. What you stated is academic fraud when a player doesn't meet minimum requirements (GPA, etc) and is allowed to play sports. It was not widespread throughout the department or university. The NCAA has no jurisdiction as to assess the quality or rigor levels of a course. That is up to the accreditation organization (SACS, etc). If UNC did indeed allow players to participate without meeting NCAA requirements, that is indeed fraud. Or impermissible gifts, etc are violations. Then hammer the hell out of 'em but that hasn't been indicated from what I've seen.

Are you inferring that these type of courses don't exist at Stanford, Miami, etc? Are you even naïve enough to believe that. They all TAs, GAs, adjuncts, etc. So, now the requirement is to submit 2 papers instead of 1 and all is well or standards met. GTFO. It rampant at every school and why the NCAA will shy away from determining what qualifies as an A or D.

Certain universities have more stringent requirements but meeting minimum GPA isn't a daunting task else the entire system would crumble. They hardly have time to devote a lot study, just enough to get by, of course there are outliers that excel.
I do not believe Stanford, Miami, and others have created courses, and have whole departments on the take. Do I think they get preferential treatment? Yes I do, but not have the whole department is on the take. This is a big deal because this is on a whole different scale of a TA letting a football player turn in a paper late. This is fictional classes and coursework, not letting a player slide on missing an assignment or turning it in late. I know for a fact team assistants and others help players but this, this is not that this is totally made up curriculum.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2016, 10:23 AM
 
3,866 posts, read 4,279,397 times
Reputation: 4532
Quote:
Originally Posted by pumbaa View Post
I do not believe Stanford, Miami, and others have created courses, and have whole departments on the take. Do I think they get preferential treatment? Yes I do, but not have the whole department is on the take. This is a big deal because this is on a whole different scale of a TA letting a football player turn in a paper late. This is fictional classes and coursework, not letting a player slide on missing an assignment or turning it in late. I know for a fact team assistants and others help players but this, this is not that this is totally made up curriculum.
Independent study courses that don't have an online or a classroom-led instructor are not fictional. They existed, now as to who submitted work if any for a grade is an issue of ethics.


North Carolina academic scandal will end quietly, just like everyone wanted - SBNation.com


The reason? This was a scam that all students benefited from, not just the athletes enrolled in the classes. There was also significant evidence that the students enrolled in these classes at least had to turn in something before being awarded a grade. Regardless of what the content of the turned in paper was, the fact that actual work had to be done makes it extremely difficult to prove academic fraud, and thus, the NCAA chose not to head down that road. So instead of academic fraud, the NCAA has chosen to describe what took place as "impermissible benefits to student-athletes that were not generally available to the student body."

Well, at least they'll have to turn in more than 2 papers or a couple of homework assignments to meet standards for a "C+", even at Stanford and Miami. The terms quality and meeting standards is very subjective. Tossing around names like Stanford, Miami, etc does little to change the fact that it's a big business and same rules apply.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2016, 01:26 PM
 
3,083 posts, read 4,858,470 times
Reputation: 1954
Each UNC system school's auditor was required by the BOG to review its student athletes classes, including major, Independent class schedule, etc...and no other school was found to have a problem. The auditors are not lying...there are no other schools in the UNC system that have a problem, except Chapel Hill.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2016, 01:39 PM
 
3,866 posts, read 4,279,397 times
Reputation: 4532
Quote:
Originally Posted by HP91 View Post
Each UNC system school's auditor was required by the BOG to review its student athletes classes, including major, Independent class schedule, etc...and no other school was found to have a problem. The auditors are not lying...there are no other schools in the UNC system that have a problem, except Chapel Hill.
No school is going to peel by the onion until required to do so, of course they met the "schools" standards. Are you that naïve or in the dark as to what is going on? So the requirement is to submit 2 papers, standards met, carry on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2016, 03:40 PM
 
3,083 posts, read 4,858,470 times
Reputation: 1954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Aristotle View Post
No school is going to peel by the onion until required to do so, of course they met the "schools" standards. Are you that naïve or in the dark as to what is going on? So the requirement is to submit 2 papers, standards met, carry on.
They met the BOG standards...the auditors had to do their job based on the standards set by the BOG.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2016, 06:58 AM
 
3,866 posts, read 4,279,397 times
Reputation: 4532
Quote:
Originally Posted by HP91 View Post
They met the BOG standards...the auditors had to do their job based on the standards set by the BOG.
Ok..... It's called pencil whipping, give it a break. If an independent 3rd party really starting digging into specific classes it'd get ugly quick in a lot of places. Even at UNC during the AA studies independent course scam, students were submitting so-called "work" for the paper classes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top