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Old 03-27-2013, 02:14 PM
 
286 posts, read 657,317 times
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Tenure does nothing but protect sorry teachers who shouldn't be there anyway.

If we already have a problem getting good teachers why do we want to protect the bad ones? Weed them out and get rid of them.
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by frisch View Post
Tenure does nothing but protect sorry teachers who shouldn't be there anyway.

If we already have a problem getting good teachers why do we want to protect the bad ones? Weed them out and get rid of them.
Ranking teachers would be like ranking a pilot, how do you define what makes a good pilot and how do you measure it? Same with teachers.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:08 PM
 
286 posts, read 657,317 times
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If passengers complaining about the flight becomes a common occurrence, the pilot will likely be canned.

The same cannot be said for a teacher who has parents complaining.
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:15 PM
LLN
 
Location: Upstairs closet
5,265 posts, read 10,784,105 times
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Originally Posted by frisch View Post
The same cannot be said for a teacher who has parents complaining.
Parents complaining is not a viable metric for measuring performance of teachers.

The answer is so simple. Give the principal a salary budget.

IT IS HOW SMALL BUSINESS WORKS WORLDWIDE.

It is easy. If the principal screws up, then ...."Next."

This doesn't happen because most administrators are spineless drones averse to risks and decision making. I would put my salary in my principals hands in a nanosecond.

I teach good, do a lot of stuff, and bust my butt.

Bring it on!
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:12 PM
 
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Poor teachers remain employed not because of tenure, but because we need so many teachers and the pay and working conditions are not sufficient to attract more talent. Firing bad teachers does not equal hiring good teachers. The only ways to get rid of bad teachers is to increase class sizes or elevate the profession to compete for talent.

The tenure thing is a smoke screen by cynical politicians trying to shift the blame for our failing schools from our leaders onto our public servants. Those of you who fall for it will get what you deserve.

I think part of the answer is allowing the best teachers to reach more students. I think we need a hierarchy of teachers. I think we could borrow a page from universities, where the professors teach large groups and then they break out into small groups with TAs for reinforcement. I think the good teacher vs. bad teacher thing is overly simplistic. Everyone employed as teachers are capable of doing something productive towards educating our youth. Currently, we are under-empowering some teachers and over-empowering others. Give each teacher a job they can succeed at.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:22 AM
 
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I also agree not a fan at all on tenure. This will turn a teachers profession into a temporary job assignment. What will this do when applying for a mortgage? Will the bank say employment will end in a certain time frame? Therefore you're declined. Atleast the backers of this bill have a teacher to thank for being able to write this bill.
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:03 AM
 
286 posts, read 657,317 times
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Originally Posted by LLN View Post
Parents complaining is not a viable metric for measuring performance of teachers.
The parents sending their kids to school to be taught by those teachers would beg to differ.

The fact that you as a teacher believe you should not have any responsibility toward those paying your salary and those sending kids so that you even have a job demonstrates one of the biggest problems with public schools.

One more reason why my kids will never get anywhere near public schools.
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:41 AM
 
13,811 posts, read 27,561,667 times
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Originally Posted by frisch View Post
The parents sending their kids to school to be taught by those teachers would beg to differ.

The fact that you as a teacher believe you should not have any responsibility toward those paying your salary and those sending kids so that you even have a job demonstrates one of the biggest problems with public schools.

One more reason why my kids will never get anywhere near public schools.
OK so you don't have any kids in public schools (nor do I, but I did go to them). I'm curious what you are referring to when you say parents are complaining...about what? What things have been said? I want actual examples please. Where did you hear them? First hand or second hand from someone?
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:08 AM
 
286 posts, read 657,317 times
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I went to public schools too for awhile before moving to private. I had terrible slack teachers who my mother and friends' parents would complain about to no avail. I can only assume the problem is worse now based on some of the people who I know that are getting into the teaching profession.

As I said I attended both - in the private school, a teacher came in one year and was universally despised by students and their parents. He was canned after that first year.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:04 PM
 
3,879 posts, read 4,309,140 times
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Originally Posted by frisch View Post
I went to public schools too for awhile before moving to private. I had terrible slack teachers who my mother and friends' parents would complain about to no avail. I can only assume the problem is worse now based on some of the people who I know that are getting into the teaching profession.

As I said I attended both - in the private school, a teacher came in one year and was universally despised by students and their parents. He was canned after that first year.

Public school classrooms on a whole have to accomodate more students (sometimes > 25) students in a classroom so it's not apples to apples when comparing teacher capability, so the turnover rate can be high in some cases. Plus it takes 3-5 years for most teachers entering the profession to master course content, become effective classroom managers and navigate the administrative requirements and environment. That's the secret of hiring more teachers, to reduce classroom size. You'd be amazed at the effect. I taught in a public high school a few years back (now, collegiate) but the class size made all the difference. 10-15 students is a magical number...>25 can be a disaster.

Generalizing and labeling public school teachers as slackers is subjective and opinionated. Again, the problem with most public school environments is class size, not slack teachers. Most teachers pour their heart in soul into their profession (as I) and readily accept parents who think little Johnny/Suzy is a genious and placing them in a private school is the panacea; not to mention the ensuing "snob" factor that one could acquire to diminish any postives associated with the public school environment. I know a lot of dummies who graduated from private schools and universities....a lot of smart people to. Quite frankly, the smart/dummy ratio is applicable to public schools...just cost a helluva lot less.
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