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"A bonus for Upstate is that it would inherit almost all of NYS's natural beauty (except the coastline). The Adirondacks, Catskills, Finger Lakes, Niagara Falls, etc. This would make tourism in Upstate akin places like Vermont and New Hampshire: four seasons of outdoor recreation, quaint little villages, Wine Trails. NYS Tourism marketing has always tried to sell the excitement of the City and the beauty of the Country, but the rest of world only sees the Big City. Upstate could re-define itself to the nation as the beautiful natural place that it is."
Well-said!!! You hit the nail EXACTLY on the head.
Upstate would be better off existing as a separate state from metro NYC. It is not by a fit of whimsy that I wish for a legal parting. Rather, I wish for a breaking up into two states for the imminently practical reason that Upstate New York needs to assert its rightful place as a US state that has its own identity, history, geography, climate, economy, wildlife, etc. Upstate needs to let the world know that it is NOT NYC. It needs to! No one knows it exists! Upstate lies hiddden in the dark shadows of a gigantic mega-city! And the irony is they share the same name! Ah, the misconceptions, misunderstandings and resultant confusion of a small and quiet state that shares its name with a big and brash city (the de facto center-of-the-universe!) could fill volumes of books! Since the 19th century, ever since the once tiny village of New Amsterdam became Gotham, Upstate has been long suffering a huge identity crisis. In part, the govt of New York State is partly to blame for this.
NYS govt. has done an incredibly poor job of promoting and marketing tourism and sustainable economic development for upstate New York. What an unmitigated disaster! Take, as an example of their ineptitude, the "I LOVE NY" media ad campaign. Now, I ask you, what is the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear or see "I LOVE NY?" That's right!! New York CITY!! However, according to the NYS Department of Tourism, the ILNY campaign is meant to promote NY State, not just the City. But this fact is lost on most people because the campaign has been (and still is) poorly executed. The state is to blame for the separate but parallel slogan. The ILNY media campaign aggresively burst forth upon the world during the dismal days of economic and social malaise of the mid-1970's. Remember the infamous Daily News headline of 1975 that read: "Ford To City: Drop Dead?" Remember when the nation's entertainers on late-night TV would invariably bring up muggings and shootings in NYC during their stand-up comic routines? Remember the scourge of the then-rampant graffiti assault that added to the reputation that NYC was not only a crime-ridden hell-hole, but a filthy and degenerate "must-to-avoid" for tourists and businessmen alike? Remember the nightly news stories of dozens of apartment buildings in the South Bronx burning to the ground each day? It was a city vortexing wildly out of control. This fact was uppermost in the minds of people throughout not just the US, but the entire world.
Then came the catchy disco-ish song, "ILNY," blaring from TV and radio. NYC was now christened "Fun City." NYS helped its downtrodden stepchild, its prodigal son, by promoting the good things about the Big Apple. Over time, the ad campaign worked. I love NY: I love NYC. The city, like the legendary Phoenix rising from the ashes, came back stronger than ever after a few years at the bottom of the dregs.
But Upstate was also in a state of decline and in need of a fresh image makeover. While its troubles were not the same as NYC's and did not effect as many people, they were salient just the same. Upstate had lost tens of thousands of good-paying jobs because of manufacturing leaving for other states. Tourism was not being promoted as it should (see Vermont as a way to do it and do it right!) in order to overcome the losses and declines of farming. Tax reform was not even on the table. While not suffering the violent urban ills and decadence of NYC, there was a decline in Upstate of a high-quality economy that was the envy of the entire world. It wasn't called the Empire State for nothing.
Upstate New York needs to pro-actively change its fate. Perhaps the first step in order to affect such a change would be to make Upstate the 51st state of the Union, independent of NYC/Downstate. What the state's name would be is secondary to the primary goal of independence!
The time to act is NOW!
To long have NYC and Albany benefited from the over-taxation of Upstate NY.() It is time to throw off the tax burden, seperate, and form a new, state.
Why does UPSTATE NY have to pay for all of the greed going on in Albany and NYC????? It is long past time to secede and form a brand new state, seperate from any existing state.
Down-state PORK BARREL POLITICS have gone on far to long. It is high time to throw off the yoke of taxation and rise as a STRONG, PATRIOTIC, State that doesn't give in to the wishes of greedy pork barrel politicians such as HILLARY CLINTON! If Upstate NY was to leave, she would probably jump ship because OUR TAXES are funding HER campaign while she is FAILINGto do the job she was elected todo.
Let’s face it, NYC and its surrounding areas is a different world from the rest of New York State, NYC has its own laws and acts like a separate state in many ways, maybe that’s why we Upstaters think of them as “those people”. I say, if they want to behave like they’re a separate state, we should give them what they obviously want.
I for one am tired of supporting a city that's always broke. Why is it that whenever my taxes go up, the "benefits" are never seen in my city? There’s nothing but economic decay here. If we were to secede, much more of my tax dollar would go to benefit my area. Politicians tell us how much they love upstate...and then pander to the highest voting population. I always wonder why if they love upstate so much...why don't they ever reside here? I live in Central NY (it doesn't get much more central than Syracuse) and have never seen any politician benefit us here; I don’t think they even show their faces in the upstate area once their campaigning is over (unless there’s a fat check in it for them).
Many benefits have been stated for secession, which I'll not go into; sure there will be teething troubles, but that's to be expected, we’ll end up with the capitol; NYC will end up with all the pandering politicians. LOL
The one drawback that I can foresee is when NYC's economy collapses under the weight of its debt of maintaining its failing infrastructure, and supporting all the people who are a drain on society, is the "rats abandoning a sinking ship" syndrome that will follow. Upstate's population will increase, while NYC's population decreases, unfortunately it most likely will not be affluent business people, but rather the dregs of society who will only burden upstate's fledgling economy. These "emigrants" would most likely bring their way of life (read "NYC comes to (and ruins) my town"), and mess up many otherwise nice towns in the process. This is my biggest fear, other than that, I'M ALL FOR IT, have been for years. Let’s become “North New York”!
I’ve seen it mentioned that we benefit from the name recognition of NYC…I personally think that in many ways it’s a liability, not a benefit., as most people think NYC any time New York is mentioned, they know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING of the rest, they can’t even fathom that there’s country and woodlands, etc., as far as they’re concerned it’s all just one big city.
Ok, I’ve ranted long enough, and maybe not all my points and ideas are completely valid, but I believe that most of them aren’t all that far off base.
We can use Lake Erie as a common border or we take Erie, PA and environ and make it part of Ohio. ...
Buffalo has more in common with the States that border the Great Lakes and certainly is more akin to Cleveland, Ohio.
Does not Pennsylvania border the Great Lakes?
Actually Pittsburgh and Cleveland are probably the most similar cities in that region, in that they have had at least some success in transitioning out of a purely manufacturing economy.
Actually Pittsburgh and Cleveland are probably the most similar cities in that region, in that they have had at least some success in transitioning out of a purely manufacturing economy.
For all Buffalo gets for being poor... Ok when Buffalo just got ranked as #2 poorest city in the US.. cleveland was #4 .. but in reality this is all purely academic - its a race over the smallest percentiles.
The large underlying issue here is the disparity that still exists in this country between class -- and thus race. A lot of the NE and the rust belt is still dealing with this divide between white/black rich/poor. Not helping thigns is that the US has sold off its manufacturing sector overseas and to illegal migrant labor or to factory towns set up 2ft across the border -- all in an effort to avoid paying americans for hard work.
Im done arguing .. i more think its funny, this country is walking off the cliff and no one knows it. Look at every thats gotten strong and how its gotten that way - to put it bluntly its been countries that make ****. And whats the country everyone says is upcoming ? (china) and what is it they do mostly ? (manufacturing)
A fact, followed by some opinions.
First things first: it's a myth that upstate subsidizes NYC. Calculations vary, but city workers paid 45% of the state's taxes in 1992, and got 39% of the state's benefits. NYC and suburban counties essentially gave upstate $3.3 billion in 1992. That situation figures to have only gotten worse, as the city has kept booming and upstate has stagnated. Source: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.htmlres=980DE2DF1239F933A25756C0A96195826 0&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print (broken link)
Without the welfare from NYC, upstate would be in even worse shape. What would happen, for example, if all the upstate prisons closed? In some places, they provide the only decent jobs.
I lived in NYC for 17 years and now live in Plattsburgh, by choice. I think the biggest thing upstate can do is demand transportation links to NYC to make it easier for the huge population to bring its tourist dollars, and in some cases, relocate and build new businesses. High-speed rail would be a huge step, allowing for more telecommuters to help repopulate and revive the many grand old upstate communities. This is already happening in the Hudson Valley, because it's easy to get to.
The biggest problem is that upstate communities had no answer for the job drain that took place when stores like Wal-Mart demanded that all the goods they sell come from peon-labor countries like China. American manufacturing died, and upstate died with it.
I'm optimistic, though, because of global warming and rising fuel costs. People will want to live in upstate's cooler climes near its reliable supplies of fresh water (how's "booming" Atlanta look right now, btw?). As oil goes over $100 a barrel, the China/India/Central America supply chain to US malls will no longer be sustainable, and the proximity to Canada's oil wealth will be desirable. We'll be in a position to make goods locally again.
But upstate needs to quit the reflexive hatred of "The City," and instead try to harness some of NYC's riches by poaching its brainpower and tourist dollars rather than its prisoners. The state government needs to see the possibilities of this future, create an infrastructure for it, and market it.
I'll try to make a small contribution right now. I've got a slogan ready: Upstate New York--America's Cool Belt!
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Yes!!
) It is time to throw off the tax burden, seperate, and form a new, state.
