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Yeah just take another street. Because that takes a really quick amount of time in this city. And once again, yes, they do make it more difficult. It's a pretty simply matter of physics.
Any proof that backs up your comment that bike lanes hinder ER routes?
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Articles written by questionable people with an agenda mean nothing to me. I've driven with taxi drivers, family, and even alone driving around narrowed streets. In every case, drivers (including myself) get more hostile and aggressive when more vehicles have to be squeezed into a tighter space.
Sounds like you have a personal problem with driving in the city more than anything. As for something from "questionable people" I am not sure I would call the amount of urban planners and studies that have been made on driver habits "questionable" unless you are one of those people who say "no one rides the bus cause I saw a bus the other day and it was empty."
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You guys keep talking about loading docks. Those are not loading docks.
Please clarify what you mean then, go to google maps and find a street view that shows what you are talking about so we can be on the same page.
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Ahhhh and it comes down to the good old nanny state telling us what's good for us because us average joes don't have the ability to know what is right. Thank the good lord we have our wonderful jannette sadik-khan to show us the way.
That is a stupid comment to say, would you tell a doctor that when he is giving you medical advice? Damn those people who actually go to school and get an education in urban planning trying to tell some guy who drives a truck how urban planning should go....
Last edited by bmwguydc; 04-04-2012 at 11:15 AM..
Reason: Off-topic quote/response
Well considering the protected lanes do not cause delays, I guess we have nothing to worry about then. In some cases the lanes can even be used for ER vehicle, similar to isolated BRT lanes.
Moderator cut: Off-topic
The average person doesn't know, that's why we have people paid to do certain things for us. We don't have the time or resources to conduct the research, or design the infrastructure.
Last edited by bmwguydc; 04-04-2012 at 11:17 AM..
Reason: Off-topic
Any proof that backs up your comment that bike lanes hinder ER routes?
We both obviously have our own anecdotal ideas on this matter. However like I told the other guy, ask any FF or medic that has had to work in busy areas that have protected lanes, and they'll tell you what's up. This was proven true to me when I witnessed first hand Ladder 20 having a hard time having to back up and maneuver their way around the corner off of Grand Street. Do you have any proof that they don't hinder ER response?
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Sounds like you have a personal problem with driving in the city more than anything. As for something from "questionable people" I am not sure I would call the amount of urban planners and studies that have been made on driver habits "questionable" unless you are one of those people who say "no one rides the bus cause I saw a bus the other day and it was empty."
I don't like driving. You are correct. I try and do it as little as possible. Especially in the city. And yes, companies that the Bloomberg administration contracts out to to their studies are absolutely questionable.
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Please clarify what you mean then, go to google maps and find a street view that shows what you are talking about so we can be on the same page.
This is a loading dock
They are few and far between most parts of this city where the OP is most likely dreaming of protected bike lanes.
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That is a stupid comment to say, would you tell a doctor that when he is giving you medical advice? Damn those people who actually go to school and get an education in urban planning trying to tell some guy who drives a truck how urban planning should go....
Yes let us compare a doctor to an urban planner. That makes perfect sense.....Dude, an urban planner is not even in the same galaxy as a doctor. Your comparison is beyond absurd.
Last edited by bmwguydc; 04-04-2012 at 11:17 AM..
Reason: Off-topic quote/response removed
Well considering the protected lanes do not cause delays, I guess we have nothing to worry about then. In some cases the lanes can even be used for ER vehicle, similar to isolated BRT lanes.
I'll just go ahead and quote what I said to the guy above you about this:
We both obviously have our own anecdotal ideas on this matter. However like I told the other guy, ask any FF or medic that has had to work in busy areas that have protected lanes, and they'll tell you what's up. This was proven true to me when I witnessed first hand Ladder 20 having a hard time having to back up and maneuver their way around the corner off of Grand Street. Do you have any proof that they don't hinder ER response?
Moderator cut: Off-topic
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The average person doesn't know, that's why we have people paid to do certain things for us. We don't have the time or resources to conduct the research, or design the infrastructure.
Again, just because someone is paid in their field (no matter what that field is), doesn't automatically make their opinions good for everybody. That's a silly person statement.
Last edited by bmwguydc; 04-04-2012 at 11:18 AM..
Reason: Off-topic
We both obviously have our own anecdotal ideas on this matter. However like I told the other guy, ask any FF or medic that has had to work in busy areas that have protected lanes, and they'll tell you what's up. This was proven true to me when I witnessed first hand Ladder 20 having a hard time having to back up and maneuver their way around the corner off of Grand Street. Do you have any proof that they don't hinder ER response?
Well I am not going to take you visual word for it, how do I know the driver of that truck didn't make a wide enough turn, or what if there were cars in the lane he was turning from that made it difficult to make such a hard turn. How about you find real prove about this that is documented cause it sounds like if I can ask any firefighter or medic about this, then I am sure there is plenty of documentation about it....in the mean time, I will do some hunting for where it mentions it does not.
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I don't like driving. You are correct. I try and do it as little as possible. Especially in the city. And yes, companies that the Bloomberg administration contracts out to to their studies are absolutely questionable.
Well thank you for answering your own question, I am not going to take your advice on how traffic functions when you don't even like driving.
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This is a loading dock
They are few and far between most parts of this city where the OP is most likely dreaming of protected bike lanes.
Well there is your problem with this one, no one was talking about this kind of loading dock that would only be found in largely industrial areas that probably would see little to no effect from bike lanes...
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Yes let us compare a doctor to an urban planner. That makes perfect sense.....Dude, an urban planner is not even in the same galaxy as a doctor. Your comparison is beyond absurd.
obviously that comparison was too grand for you to understand. Would you tell the sanitation department how to do their job without understanding how sewage works within the city? Or should Bloomberg have you on speed dial to ask you instead of those that are paid and have the education to back themselves up? Trust me, I am going to listen to an urban planner over you every time because a good urban planner has also gone to the community to hear what people have to say collectively.
Last edited by bmwguydc; 04-04-2012 at 11:19 AM..
Reason: Off-topic
Oh no, I don't know more than them about NYC, I just know more than you.
You can do all the reading you want about my city, but you'll never know it like I do. Even if you move here and live out the rest of your days.
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Well I am not going to take you visual word for it, how do I know the driver of that truck didn't make a wide enough turn, or what if there were cars in the lane he was turning from that made it difficult to make such a hard turn. How about you find real prove about this that is documented cause it sounds like if I can ask any firefighter or medic about this, then I am sure there is plenty of documentation about it....in the mean time, I will do some hunting for where it mentions it does not.
"Traffic on Grand Street is worse. Pedestrian crossings are more dangerous. Critical turns for the Fire Department, ambulances and police have become difficult."
Well thank you for answering your own question, I am not going to take your advice on how traffic functions when you don't even like driving.
As I stated earlier, anybody I've been in the car with ends up driving in the same fashion. Once you live here and if you end up driving, you'll see what it's like to drive here.
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Well there is your problem with this one, no one was talking about this kind of loading dock that would only be found in largely industrial areas that probably would see little to no effect from bike lanes...
You friggin momo's are the ones that kept saying loading docks. That is what a loading dock is. An area in front of a store on a city street is not a loading dock.
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obviously that comparison was too grand for you to understand. Would you tell the sanitation department how to do their job without understanding how sewage works within the city? Or should Bloomberg have you on speed dial to ask you instead of those that are paid and have the education to back themselves up? Trust me, I am going to listen to an urban planner over you every time because a good urban planner has also gone to the community to hear what people have to say collectively.
No, not too grand for me to understand. Simply a ridiculous comparison. Had you used sanitation to compare in the first place, that would be one thing. But you got all confident in yourself and threw out doctor, which was laughable.
Anyway, there is a big difference between vital services like sanitation and what we are discussing. So that in itself is a poor comparison as well.
You can do all the reading you want about my city, but you'll never know it like I do. Even if you move here and live out the rest of your days.
"Traffic on Grand Street is worse. Pedestrian crossings are more dangerous. Critical turns for the Fire Department, ambulances and police have become difficult."
"I’ve seen fire engines tied up at Pitt Street."
As I stated earlier, anybody I've been in the car with ends up driving in the same fashion. Once you live here and if you end up driving, you'll see what it's like to drive here.
You friggin momo's are the ones that kept saying loading docks. That is what a loading dock is. An area in front of a store on a city street is not a loading dock.
No, not too grand for me to understand. Simply a ridiculous comparison. Had you used sanitation to compare in the first place, that would be one thing. But you got all confident in yourself and threw out doctor, which was laughable.
Anyway, there is a big difference between vital services like sanitation and what we are discussing. So that in itself is a poor comparison as well.
And with all that, you still haven't really given a good reason why the city shouldn't be investing in a bicycle infrastructure.
My favorite quote from the article that you posted,
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ou'll recall that last December the Soho Alliance sent us a video depicting a truck driver who got stuck turning from West Broadway onto Grand Street because he mistook the parked cars for idling traffic.
That seriously was classic, gave me a good laugh. Other than that, much of the article was a handful of NIMBYs whining about change. If anything, all that really needs to be done is taking away a couple parking spots at the entrance of each intersection to make it easier for firetrucks to turn onto that street. As for the street being backed up with traffic, that sounds more like a car issue than a bike issue.
I am still gonna listen to what an urban planner has to say about bike lanes and bicycle infrastructure over you, just so you know.
And with all that, you still haven't really given a good reason why the city shouldn't be investing in a bicycle infrastructure.
And nobody has ever given a really good reason as to why bicycle infrastructure needs to have taxpayer money thrown at it for the benefit of a significantly small percentage of people. And remember, this is coming from a biker.
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My favorite quote from the article that you posted,
That seriously was classic, gave me a good laugh. Other than that, much of the article was a handful of NIMBYs whining about change. If anything, all that really needs to be done is taking away a couple parking spots at the entrance of each intersection to make it easier for firetrucks to turn onto that street. As for the street being backed up with traffic, that sounds more like a car issue than a bike issue.
So a truck driver became confused from the all of the parked cars in the middle of the already narrow street. Indeed. That doesn't surprise me. This probably still happens a lot, only creating more traffic. I like how you dismiss the rest of the article as NIMBYs. You "progressives" love that term I've noticed. I guess you really have got nothing else.
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I am still gonna listen to what an urban planner has to say about bike lanes and bicycle infrastructure over you, just so you know.
[color="Red"][b]Thread as it stands is a result of merged commuter biking threads, as it makes sense to have one discussion in place regarding the issue, not multiple threads. Any continuity errors before this message are the result of the merge and cannot be helped, as the software indexes by date and time. Thank you.
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All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.
~William Shakespeare (As You Like It Act II, Scene VII)
And nobody has ever given a really good reason as to why bicycle infrastructure needs to have taxpayer money thrown at it for the benefit of a significantly small percentage of people. And remember, this is coming from a biker.
So a truck driver became confused from the all of the parked cars in the middle of the already narrow street. Indeed. That doesn't surprise me. This probably still happens a lot, only creating more traffic. I like how you dismiss the rest of the article as NIMBYs. You "progressives" love that term I've noticed. I guess you really have got nothing else.
Funny, I could say the same thing about you, it doesn't benefit enough people right now, therefore why should it be funded? I have heard this same cry from the same people who said the same thing when cities propose light rail, if there isn't something there to encourage new bikers, then I guess we shouldn't build anything to help increase those new people encouraged to bike.
I like your, lets do nothing approach. It really makes me believe you are a commuter biker...
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