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ChocolateGirl, they said you didn't have enough equity? isn't the point of this process to give low income people housing.. why would you need MORE equity?
Think you'll find all these schemes are "affordable" low and middle, not merely low income housing. There is a subtle difference that can affect who is able to obtain these apartments.
Persons are starting to wake up to this as more and more of such plans are announced including the latest developments for "Brookhattan".
Think you'll find all these schemes are "affordable" low and middle, not merely low income housing. There is a subtle difference that can affect who is able to obtain these apartments.
Persons are starting to wake up to this as more and more of such plans are announced including the latest developments for "Brookhattan".
are you saying its an extemporaneous factor pulled out of thin air in hopes to disqualify someone?
are you saying its an extemporaneous factor pulled out of thin air in hopes to disqualify someone?
No, just that low income does not always translate into "affordable" low income.
These developments are not the projects and it is to neither the city's or developer's/landlord's interest to have persons move into these units that cannot pay on time rent in future. The rents for these units are determined partially by the income.
What the City seeks to do is what landlords have for awhile now with market rate apartments; determine what part of income a family can devote to rent a family can *afford*. Once you go down that path there obviously are going to be limits at how low rents can go.
The whole idea of "inclusionary" housing is to give persons whom are stably employed but not earning huge sums the same choices as upper middle class households. This is as opposed to the old way of segregating them into projects or other low income housing.
Developers aside from the tax breaks still often must increase the average rents for free market apartments to make-up the shortfall from the twenty percent paying "affordable" and often RS rents.
No, just that low income does not always translate into "affordable" low income.
These developments are not the projects and it is to neither the city's or developer's/landlord's interest to have persons move into these units that cannot pay on time rent in future. The rents for these units are determined partially by the income.
What the City seeks to do is what landlords have for awhile now with market rate apartments; determine what part of income a family can devote to rent a family can *afford*. Once you go down that path there obviously are going to be limits at how low rents can go.
The whole idea of "inclusionary" housing is to give persons whom are stably employed but not earning huge sums the same choices as upper middle class households. This is as opposed to the old way of segregating them into projects or other low income housing.
Developers aside from the tax breaks still often must increase the average rents for free market apartments to make-up the shortfall from the twenty percent paying "affordable" and often RS rents.
Simple way of saying it would be City and LL want to ensure there is adequate income to pay rent *ONTIME* each month. Am sure we both know persons that pay rent late because they just do not have things together on the first of the month. This comes from them not being able to *afford* their rent. The City comes up with an *average* rent that low and middle income households should be able to pay easily from their income that does not leave them "rent poor", that is half or more of their entire monthly income is going towards housing costs.
If monthly income is too low there is a risk of late or nonpayment. Hence my comment about it not being truly "low income" housing. By this I meant if you have no job/visible means of support, or it lower than whatever parameters the City came up with for "low income" then you aren't going to be helped by these schemes.
ah yes i understand. so in that case... would it be ok for an affordable resident to pay the entire year's rent up front?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal
Simple way of saying it would be City and LL want to ensure there is adequate income to pay rent *ONTIME* each month. Am sure we both know persons that pay rent late because they just do not have things together on the first of the month. This comes from them not being able to *afford* their rent. This comes up with an *average* rent that low and middle income households should be able to pay easily from their income.
If monthly income is too low there is a risk of late or nonpayment. Hence my comment about it not being truly "low income" housing. By this I meant if you have no job/visible means of support, or it lower than whatever parameters the City came up with for "low income" then you aren't going to be helped by these schemes.
ah yes i understand. so in that case... would it be ok for an affordable resident to pay the entire year's rent up front?
Why would someone want to do that?
Have heard of market rate and other tenants doing this, but even there that was usually for persons who didn't qualify and or the landlord had problems with accepting.
First of all paying rent that far upfront without something legally written into the lease is very dangerous. Suppose the building has a fire or major damage and you have to move out? In some instances you would not be liable for paying rent, but if you have paid a year's worth upfront then what? You're going to have to haggle to have the months you lived elsewhere credited to extend the deal.
Or, suppose the building is sold and it then becomes a game of he said/she said. Old LL may not transfer the funds to the new owner.....
In any case am almost certain the City wouldn't let such a thing happen.
One of the reasons why this whole process is so detailed and drawn out is to prevent some of the things that happened in past.
When the process was all pencil and paper as you can imagine it was open to all sorts of abuses. Everyone from politicians, City agency workers, community leaders, Mafia, etc..... all had their tastes. Places would be filled with mothers, grandmothers, cousins, girlfriends, mistresses... all sorts of family members or friends of those that *knew* about these "low income" apartments. All you had to do was make a telephone call to someone that knew a guy/girl, that knew a guy/girl.
It doesn't help that today these 80/20 buildings are being built in some very nice areas of the City, which for Manhattan means pretty much the entire borough. I know plenty of white/European persons or families both gay and straight that follow these listings and send in their applications just like you all. A Christine Quinn staffer and her wife/family nabbed a unit in an 80/20 building in the Meat Packing area. That must have been some coup and they are now set for life.
i've heard of people choosing to do it so i wondered if its acceptable for 80/20 renters to do it too. the last person i heard who did it, did so because she was self employed and couldn't really prove that her income was 40x the monthly rent as the management required. maybe someone just wanted to get the burden of paying rent every month out of the way, i'm not sure.. but what you said about unexpected occurrences makes sense, i know i definitely wouldn't want all my money gone if something out of whack were to happen. and i'm pretty sure anyone who'd do that would get it in writing, they'd have to otherwise the landlord could still ask for rent every month.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal
Why would someone want to do that?
Have heard of market rate and other tenants doing this, but even there that was usually for persons who didn't qualify and or the landlord had problems with accepting.
First of all paying rent that far upfront without something legally written into the lease is very dangerous. Suppose the building has a fire or major damage and you have to move out? In some instances you would not be liable for paying rent, but if you have paid a year's worth upfront then what? You're going to have to haggle to have the months you lived elsewhere credited to extend the deal.
Or, suppose the building is sold and it then becomes a game of he said/she said. Old LL may not transfer the funds to the new owner.....
In any case am almost certain the City wouldn't let such a thing happen.
One of the reasons why this whole process is so detailed and drawn out is to prevent some of the things that happened in past.
When the process was all pencil and paper as you can imagine it was open to all sorts of abuses. Everyone from politicians, City agency workers, community leaders, Mafia, etc..... all had their tastes. Places would be filled with mothers, grandmothers, cousins, girlfriends, mistresses... all sorts of family members or friends of those that *knew* about these "low income" apartments. All you had to do was make a telephone call to someone that knew a guy/girl, that knew a guy/girl.
It doesn't help that today these 80/20 buildings are being built in some very nice areas of the City, which for Manhattan means pretty much the entire borough. I know plenty of white/European persons or families both gay and straight that follow these listings and send in their applications just like you all. A Christine Quinn staffer and her wife/family nabbed a unit in an 80/20 building in the Meat Packing area. That must have been some coup and they are now set for life.
i've heard of people choosing to do it so i wondered if its acceptable for 80/20 renters to do it too. the last person i heard who did it, did so because she was self employed and couldn't really prove that her income was 40x the monthly rent as the management required. maybe someone just wanted to get the burden of paying rent every month out of the way, i'm not sure.. but what you said about unexpected occurrences makes sense, i know i definitely wouldn't want all my money gone if something out of whack were to happen. and i'm pretty sure anyone who'd do that would get it in writing, they'd have to otherwise the landlord could still ask for rent every month.
Yes, have heard of market rent including RS tenants agreeing to pay lump sums up front, usually for the reason you mentioned. Other than finding a co-signer for the lease that pretty much is the only way they would get the apartment
Have not heard of such things in an 80/20 building but who knows? My thinking it wouldn't happen is at least right now demand is so high that anyone who does not qualify is skipped over and they proceed down the list.
If the apartment is supposed to be "affordable" and someone cannot prove they will be able to make rent each month on paper that they need to pay a year up front, then what happens after that first year? Are they going to have the money to pay on time each month or are we going through the whole nonsense all over again? Where is this money coming from? Personal savings? Family? A loan or cash advance from credit card? That does not to me indicate you can pay rent each month.
Once a tenant is in an apartment getting them out is not easy. Since these 80/20 buildings are RS that adds another layer of protections that could delay eviction for months.
Quite honestly don't think LLs or developers want the hassle of dealing with these sort of issues. Either you meet the guide lines and can prove or step aside. Again that Quinn staffer got her apartment because those called before on the list had problems with income verification. This lead to them being skipped over and then her number was called.
that makes perfect sense. i wasn't thinking of an 80/20 resident paying a year's rent upfront as a scam to qualify themselves, i was thinking along the terms of them qualifying in every way, then just choosing to pay the rent upfront. i asked out of curiosity because of the girl who was told she didnt have enough equity, and i was wondering if that upfront rent would count as equity (since there could be concern of the tenant paying their rent every month). maybe they saved up in preparation for getting a new apartment. its not like its hard to save money.. you just save it lol anyone can save a good chunk of money if they just put money aside. but i guess the "where did the money come from?" question would still arise. and from what i hear, whatever "extra" money you have they add to your income, so it would probably set the applicant way over the limit anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal
Yes, have heard of market rent including RS tenants agreeing to pay lump sums up front, usually for the reason you mentioned. Other than finding a co-signer for the lease that pretty much is the only way they would get the apartment
Have not heard of such things in an 80/20 building but who knows? My thinking it wouldn't happen is at least right now demand is so high that anyone who does not qualify is skipped over and they proceed down the list.
If the apartment is supposed to be "affordable" and someone cannot prove they will be able to make rent each month on paper that they need to pay a year up front, then what happens after that first year? Are they going to have the money to pay on time each month or are we going through the whole nonsense all over again? Where is this money coming from? Personal savings? Family? A loan or cash advance from credit card? That does not to me indicate you can pay rent each month.
Once a tenant is in an apartment getting them out is not easy. Since these 80/20 buildings are RS that adds another layer of protections that could delay eviction for months.
Quite honestly don't think LLs or developers want the hassle of dealing with these sort of issues. Either you meet the guide lines and can prove or step aside. Again that Quinn staffer got her apartment because those called before on the list had problems with income verification. This lead to them being skipped over and then her number was called.
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