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Having a small cabin south of Cloudcroft in Russia Canyon I have a hard time with the whole issue. Every spring is worrisome. But, and it's a big but, I can't help but believe in my heart that what's needed is not rain (in this case, we always need rain I know that) but we need a big fire. I was up two weeks ago turkey hunting which to me involved walking around the forest and sitting still in camo watching nature and very little killing of turkeys. There is more downed timber than I have ever seen. It's a fire waiting to happen and if it's not this year it's going to be soon. It needs to happen, it's the natural order of things and will help in the long run. But it's going to reek havoc for a few years after it does. I'm torn, I really am, but I think we might as well get it over with so I don't have to worry so much every spring.
Anyone else buy into that philosophy? I know it's not an easy thing.
Having a small cabin south of Cloudcroft in Russia Canyon I have a hard time with the whole issue. Every spring is worrisome. But, and it's a big but, I can't help but believe in my heart that what's needed is not rain (in this case, we always need rain I know that) but we need a big fire. I was up two weeks ago turkey hunting which to me involved walking around the forest and sitting still in camo watching nature and very little killing of turkeys. There is more downed timber than I have ever seen. It's a fire waiting to happen and if it's not this year it's going to be soon. It needs to happen, it's the natural order of things and will help in the long run. But it's going to reek havoc for a few years after it does. I'm torn, I really am, but I think we might as well get it over with so I don't have to worry so much every spring.
Anyone else buy into that philosophy? I know it's not an easy thing.
I don't live in that area, but I agree with you -- it is the dead stuff that gets us. We need controlled burns, but -- if just one of those controlled burns gets out of hand -- then everybody jumps all over whoever it was that did it. So we don't do controlled burns and do nothing until the big fire hits.
I agree with what I think you are saying -- the sooner it happens the better.
If the "powers that be" would allow logging in the natl forest that would help. But I do agree that a fire would clean it up. Thats how nature has done it in the past. I understand how a fire would clean things up, but hopefully not in towns or lives lost if it does happen. I just wish it would rain. That would not stop a fire, but it sure would help. I do understand where you are coming from. We will just have to wait and see what happens this year.
TKO...You're right. Land management agencies now realize those well-intended policies of stopping fires as quickly as possible (this went on for many years) were not natural, and have allowed fuel growth to get out of hand. If you look at some photos of your area, and the area around Ruidoso taken 100 years ago, you'll see there were far fewer trees. Fires have always been part of the natural order of the ecosystem, and there are now many areas overdue for fire. And...there are so many areas now where people live in the urban-forest interface, there are going to be some major disasters in our future.
I would highly recommend people in these areas follow the good tips by USFS and state forestry agencies on how to lower the risk of fire by creating wildfire defensible zones all around their houses.
I've noticed that on the road from CC to Timberon and it does seem like a fire hazard to me too. I wouldn't want a fire but the owners of the land should clean it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO
Having a small cabin south of Cloudcroft in Russia Canyon I have a hard time with the whole issue. Every spring is worrisome. But, and it's a big but, I can't help but believe in my heart that what's needed is not rain (in this case, we always need rain I know that) but we need a big fire. I was up two weeks ago turkey hunting which to me involved walking around the forest and sitting still in camo watching nature and very little killing of turkeys. There is more downed timber than I have ever seen. It's a fire waiting to happen and if it's not this year it's going to be soon. It needs to happen, it's the natural order of things and will help in the long run. But it's going to reek havoc for a few years after it does. I'm torn, I really am, but I think we might as well get it over with so I don't have to worry so much every spring.
Anyone else buy into that philosophy? I know it's not an easy thing.
I've noticed that on the road from CC to Timberon and it does seem like a fire hazard to me too. I wouldn't want a fire but the owners of the land should clean it up.
I'ts far too large an area to just clean up. The way it's cleaned up is by fire. A series of planned fires may be the way to go, but it's a task of monumental proportions and I don't think it's going to happen before a natural fire does it for us. Most of it's National Forest too, so the "owners" are us.
Having a small cabin south of Cloudcroft in Russia Canyon I have a hard time with the whole issue. Every spring is worrisome. But, and it's a big but, I can't help but believe in my heart that what's needed is not rain (in this case, we always need rain I know that) but we need a big fire. I was up two weeks ago turkey hunting which to me involved walking around the forest and sitting still in camo watching nature and very little killing of turkeys. There is more downed timber than I have ever seen. It's a fire waiting to happen and if it's not this year it's going to be soon. It needs to happen, it's the natural order of things and will help in the long run. But it's going to reek havoc for a few years after it does. I'm torn, I really am, but I think we might as well get it over with so I don't have to worry so much every spring.
Anyone else buy into that philosophy? I know it's not an easy thing.
Yes. It's very necessary....but the memories of Cerro Grande in Los Alamos are probably still too fresh. This the the main reason I chose not to live in a heavily forested area, though I am very close by.
The same thing is happening in West Texas this year. We had an incredible amount of rain in 2007, around 3x the normal amount, so things grew like crazy...weeds, shrubs, etc. Now that it is tinder-dry again, the dead heavy growth is causing really bad problems.
They really do need to consider a controlled burn in Cloudcroft, Ruidoso, etc.....but.....
The Forest Service is in a heck of a corner when it comes to forest management. A century-plus of fire suppression has made the forests ripe for "mega-fires" all across the West. That would be difficult enough all by itself for the Forest Service to try and manage, but the bigger problem is that people have been permitted to build all kinds of crap right in the middle of those fire zones (on private property) and now expect the Forest Service to protect it. A huge chunk of the Forest Service's and BLM's fire management budget is now devoted to protecting private structures on private land, not to trying to manage the forest resources in a coherent way.
I have no sympathy whatsoever for people who build their own private "dream house" in the middle of a tinder box, and then expect the taxpayers of the United States to protect them from their folly. The Forest Service should be directed to use its fire management funds to protect the resources on the National Forests, and not be required to--in fact, be prohibited from--using their funds to protect private structures on private property. Maybe then local governments would have enough backbone to stand up and say "no" to developments and building in severely fire-prone areas, or to at least inform property owners--in no uncertain terms--that if they build in such areas, they do so at their own risk.
I lived on a ranch in "forest fire country." We did not expect the Forest Service, or even the local fire dept., to protect our structures. We built defensible space, water storage, and fire-resistant construction to protect our structures. And it worked.
Jazz, we have insurance and accept that fire could burn our places down. It's just like living in Florida with respect to hurricanes. Do you criticize that entire state for not having stones to say "no" to development? Of course not, your control by bueracrats solution is not the answer.
Jazz, we have insurance and accept that fire could burn our places down. It's just like living in Florida with respect to hurricanes. Do you criticize that entire state for not having stones to say "no" to development? Of course not, your control by bueracrats solution is not the answer.
A Colorado editorial writer was the one, I believe, who coined a great term. His suggestion was that areas highly prone to natural disaster--tinderbox forest locations, avalanche paths, locations subject to beach erosion, etc.--be designated "Stupid Zones" by local governmental entities and zoning authorities. People would be allowed to build there, but the taxpayers would not be required to fund public services--fire protection and the like--for those properties. It would not preclude people from building there, it would only preclude public funding to "protect" them from their stupidity. That doesn't sound like governmental heavy-handedness--it sounds like NOT socializing private folly on the rest of the sensible public.
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