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I believe they "have numbers" in the sense that they're assigned address numbers, but they don't display them on the house or the curb. I looked at a project up there once, and I was given directions to the street and then told to look for " the beige contemporary on the right, halfway down the street". I asked for the street number to help me make sure I was at the right house and was told "it doesn't matter- it's not posted". It's a pretty odd system, and probably causes some issues when police, firemen, etc., need to find a home in a hurry- unless everyone on the force has memorized the location of every family in town.
I read somewhere that mail is not even delivered to the houses - everyone has a box at City Hall.
They probably do have some sort of 'internal' system for the PD, FD and so on, though.
Firstly, I want to state that by no means was my post intended to derogate a neighborhood and I am not disagreeing that there are well respected towns outside the New York and Los Angeles areas. I do not know whether or not my post was observed as offensive and if so, my apologies. Simply, I am stating that although 45,000 sq ft is a very large home; it is not out of the ordinary for a home of this size and nature to be built outside of the Los Angeles metropolitan area. Thus, comparables to Vernon Hill’s home would not require pulling listings in Holmby Hills, California. But then again real estate professionals know that gauging a price for any property requires comparables in the immediate area. Therefore, Villa Collina would not be compared to New York or Los Angeles metro homes. And with only two other homes near its size, demanding a significantly high price (comparably to homes of its size in New York or Los Angeles) in a sale would be very difficult and not feasible with the average luxury house in Moorestown, New Jersey selling in $1-1.5 million and on the higher-end $3 million.
Ultimately, homes of this size are in existence (and with new ones recurrently erected) in Nassau-Suffolk-Westchester Counties of New York and Fairfield County, Connecticut. It comes down to the fact that it is not an oddity in these areas and subsequently is less likely to be publicized unless it breaks the 60,000 sq ft mark. For example, Greenwich, Connecticut and Old Westbury, New York are mansion-heavy with many homes of 30,000 sq ft. Move over to nearby towns including New Canaan, CT or Upper Brookville, NY and the landscapes are still cover with these large homes. And not all of these towns are waterfront.
And although a publication may list that Moorestown, New Jersey as commutable to New York; it still does not fall in the New York Metropolitan area. As an individual with a research background, it is essential to play devils advocate to sources. A publication called New Jersey Monthly will be bias to the area it serves for many apparent reasons. It’s similar to the East Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania media stating they are a commuter town to New York City. Yes, commuting from East Stroudsburg is viable, but the town is far out of the sphere of influence of New York City as is Moorestown, New Jersey. Please reference the United States Office of Management and Budget for the exact New York metro area breakdown which verifies this.
As far as Manhattan, I am not questioning whether or not Hill commutes to New York on a daily basis or sporadically; when you work as a CEO in Financial Services, commuting the New York is ritual. Ultimately, because of this position, his endeavors will be printed in the New York Times whether he was from Moorestown, New Jersey or Billings, Montana.
As for Money’s Best Places to Live, understand every survey has its limits, certain things are not completely measurable but what Money’s procedure does measure is plentiful jobs, affordable housing, and excellent schools. Look at Forbes List Most Expensive ZIPs; it falls short of measuring houses not currently on the market and the fact that one town can fall into many ZIPs. Yes, I venture outside of the New York metro area quite often and I have been to Moorestown, New Jersey. I believe it is a very nice town with pockets of prestigious areas and that’s not what I was trying to deny it of. But what I am trying to get across is: the fact that New Jersey’s largest home is 45,000 sq ft; does not negate the fact that it is very common for homes of this size to exist more north in New York and Connecticut. Please pardon the typos, I am not proofreading.
Thanks for the feedback on my post -- I read Winfield and agree completely. I also read a book not to long ago on Somerset Hills by William Schleicher and really enjoyed it. If it is not one of the ones you have read, I definitely recommend.
I drove through Alpine once. It was an eye opener to say the least. As an average joe, I cant believe people pay the millions in premium for a mere acre, but to each his own. Then the homes were just insane looking. I couldnt comprehend living in those monstrosities unless I brought my entire extended family and friends, the local baker, butcher, barber and pizza maker to help fill the empty space.
Although this is about Alpine I would like digress to set the record straight. There are many magazines and they have rankings each year, so there are many "number one towns". Getting hung up on this ranking for one town is buying into mass marketing instead of having unbiased thought. Moorestown is a very nice place, but it is not even the best town in the state of New Jersey let alone the USA. Most of Moorestown's land is unwalkable mcmansion suburbia and they do not have commuter rail in town.
Someone in Philadelphia told me "the commerce bank ceo's house is the largest house in America". The fact is that the house at 45,000sf significantly bigger than the surrounding homes, but this is not the biggest one. There was one in Alpine years ago that was on the front page of all the main sites like Yahoo that looked bigger than O'Hare airport.
Regardless of its size this Villa Collina you speak of is built on relatively cheap land compared to other mega mansion towns. You can probably build a 150,000 sf house in Hidalgo, TX for peanuts too while youre at it. But that is a poor investment and nothing to write home about.
You say nobody is building 45,000 sf mansions today, so since these are rare creatures, let me ask you, why would anyone build in a town where the average home price is $441,000 ? And why would you give us all these stats about it as if its some amazing feat? Its just a poor investment (by a ceo of all people) that will sit on the market for 10 years when it comes time to sell. If this guy built to draw attention to himself, then tell him to get his 40 acres in Alpine, Greenwich or Newport Beach and maybe the people will notice.
Yes life does exist outside of NY, CT and CA. It also exists outside of NJ, PA, DE too. We have 50 states in America. But this conversation is about the overdone fantasy land known as Alpine, and the fact is most of the wealth is in a few pockets of America which have their reputations for a reason - an overwhelming majority of the ultra pricey homes are opulent and incomprehensible to the common man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoorestownResident
Just a few points of clarification. One, Moorestown didn't just make the Money list, it make the top of the Money list. As in the #1 spot. Few places in America, and probably nowhere on the East Coast, will you find comparable towns based solely on any #1 ranking. And you will always find Money's best places with high incomes and great school systems regardless of location.
It would appear the NY Times has a slightly different take on the prestige of Moorestown, generally, and Villa Collina, specifically. Of course, the article is 8 years old. As the article points out, Moorestown is home to two other massive estates - at 30,000 and 27,000 square feet.
The bottom line is Villa Collina is the largest private residence in NJ according to many sources. That's quite a statement. I'm not saying it's right or desirable, I'm quoting fact. Other estates in the NYC metro area and along the west coast, or the coast of Maine, etc., might have bigger price tags and more than likely oceanviews with them.
They were also the end of a Golden Era, many have been converted to other uses. To that end, in the Golden Age, some of the largest mansions in the early US history were found in Philadelphia's Main Line. And they suffered a similar fate. Some remain, some have been lost. The fact is, nobody is building 45,000 square foot homes today which is why it is very noteworthy. Yes, there actually is life and prestigious areas outside of LA, NYC, CT and Westchester, NY. I know it's hard to believe.
I just looked at some satellite views of Alpine. I noticed something shocking; a few average sized houses have been allowed to remain. I'm sure that'll be taken care of.
I drove through Alpine once. It was an eye opener to say the least. As an average joe, I cant believe people pay the millions in premium for a mere acre, but to each his own. Then the homes were just insane looking. I couldnt comprehend living in those monstrosities unless I brought my entire extended family and friends, the local baker, butcher, barber and pizza maker to help fill the empty space.
Although this is about Alpine I would like digress to set the record straight. There are many magazines and they have rankings each year, so there are many "number one towns". Getting hung up on this ranking for one town is buying into mass marketing instead of having unbiased thought. Moorestown is a very nice place, but it is not even the best town in the state of New Jersey let alone the USA. Most of Moorestown's land is unwalkable mcmansion suburbia and they do not have commuter rail in town.
Someone in Philadelphia told me "the commerce bank ceo's house is the largest house in America". The fact is that the house at 45,000sf significantly bigger than the surrounding homes, but this is not the biggest one. There was one in Alpine years ago that was on the front page of all the main sites like Yahoo that looked bigger than O'Hare airport.
Regardless of its size this Villa Collina you speak of is built on relatively cheap land compared to other mega mansion towns. You can probably build a 150,000 sf house in Hidalgo, TX for peanuts too while youre at it. But that is a poor investment and nothing to write home about.
You say nobody is building 45,000 sf mansions today, so since these are rare creatures, let me ask you, why would anyone build in a town where the average home price is $441,000 ? And why would you give us all these stats about it as if its some amazing feat? Its just a poor investment (by a ceo of all people) that will sit on the market for 10 years when it comes time to sell. If this guy built to draw attention to himself, then tell him to get his 40 acres in Alpine, Greenwich or Newport Beach and maybe the people will notice.
Yes life does exist outside of NY, CT and CA. It also exists outside of NJ, PA, DE too. We have 50 states in America. But this conversation is about the overdone fantasy land known as Alpine, and the fact is most of the wealth is in a few pockets of America which have their reputations for a reason - an overwhelming majority of the ultra pricey homes are opulent and incomprehensible to the common man.
Average home price is only a function of what is selling in this deep recession, the low end. The average list price in Moorestown is close to $900K. Alpine and Moorestown are completely different towns. Moorestown is a historic town of 20,000 with a mix of housing, retirement communities, condos, mansions, grand victorians, toll brothers developments, custom homes, etc., Alpine is mansions only and for the filthy rich. It is not a town, it is a club for the elite only. And, frankly, there could be a day of reckoning for areas like Alpine since it so concentrated on the ultra high net worth that are now losing tens or even hundreds of millions.
But the point is nobody is building 46,000 square foot homes in NJ. I agree it is a poor investment. To guys like that it is a status thing and it doesn't matter. Even though the land he purchased in 2001 is now worth a lot more than he paid for it, it can now only be sold to a very select group of people on an international scale.
But what makes it notable is the fact that there is not a house in Alpine or anywhere else in NJ that size based on what is reported. Why you can't accept that is beyond me, it is what it is. It doesn't change anything about the town other than the fact that to some it that is a sign of a more pretentious clientelle moving into town in the past 10-15 years. Moorestown's been riding a wave of popularity among wealthy home buyers and honestly nobody in town cares about NYC or any other location. It's a train ride away and many in town have purposely relocated from the rat races of the cities and want a friendly, quiet, charming, wealthy town with location, top schools, amenities, to raise their kids and that is what it delivers. As the articles point out the rich and famous have lived in town for centuries. But only recently has the town been thrust into the national spotlight. It is what it is. Please get over it already.
Last edited by MoorestownResident; 01-08-2009 at 06:59 AM..
Are you on the chamber of commerce for Moorestown? I sense some homerism here and you are doing anything to bend the facts about your town. This conversation was about ALPINE. Everyone knows that Alpine is a club for the rich, that is why it is so fascinating to see the place. That is why this thread is entitled "Alpine Mansions OMG" and not "Moorestown".
Ive been through most of the Northeastern US so let me educate you. Moorestown is a beautiful town with relatively reasonable prices for NJ, but the affordability is for a reason - the economy within short commuting distance around Moorestown is not as strong and diverse as other parts of New Jersey. What that means is if you can get a stable job in Moorestown vicinity, you will get a steal on a house, but not everyone can achieve this. To the masses, towns like Ridgewood, Westfield and Princeton are more desirable to name a few due to more desirable location (more jobs nearby), closer train stations, and less speculative housing stock. Moorestown is not a train ride away from NY - you need to drive a significant distance first to get to the train station (for NY or Philadelphia). It is at least 1 hr 45 min door to door just to 7th Ave Midtown which is a recipe for hating ones life. If you have to work on the east side or way downtown forget it.
Whats so great about retirement homes in a great school district town? That is a waste of tax dollars for someone on a fixed income. Greenwich and Stamford are a more extreme mix: new homes, old classy homes, dumpy homes, immigrant barrios, etc, mixed in with water views, hilltops, old world apartment buildings, yuppy condo complexes, etc. So what? Many towns/cities across the 50 states have diverse housing stock within their limits. Thats the beauty of America. And of the market of people buying on an international scale, I doubt theyd pick Moorestown over Aspen, CT, or Palm Beach. Sorry.
I thought the house was 45,000sf according to your previous data. It grew 1000sf in a day?
I respect the pride you have in your town, as that is a good thing. But I cant see validity in any of your arguments as you have provided incorrect information (biggest house in NJ), changed numbers between posts, and stretched the truth (ex: DC commutable). Im sensing homerism as strong as Philadelphia sports radio from your end. Congrats on making the top of the list. Applause. I personally like this as it shows priced out Northeasterners that affordability is not limited to FL, NC, TX, etc. I personally think people looking to save a buck should move to places like Moorestown instead of the sunbelt. But towns void of a Main Street like Parsippany and schools like Yonkers High make those lists too so you gotta take it with a grain of salt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoorestownResident
Average home price is only a function of what is selling in this deep recession, the low end. The average list price in Moorestown is close to $900K. Alpine and Moorestown are completely different towns. Moorestown is a historic town of 20,000 with a mix of housing, retirement communities, condos, mansions, grand victorians, toll brothers developments, custom homes, etc., Alpine is mansions only and for the filthy rich. It is not a town, it is a club for the elite only. And, frankly, there could be a day of reckoning for areas like Alpine since it so concentrated on the ultra high net worth that are now losing tens or even hundreds of millions.
But the point is nobody is building 46,000 square foot homes in NJ. I agree it is a poor investment. To guys like that it is a status thing and it doesn't matter. Even though the land he purchased in 2001 is now worth a lot more than he paid for it, it can now only be sold to a very select group of people on an international scale.
But what makes it notable is the fact that there is not a house in Alpine or anywhere else in NJ that size based on what is reported. Why you can't accept that is beyond me, it is what it is. It doesn't change anything about the town other than the fact that to some it that is a sign of a more pretentious clientelle moving into town in the past 10-15 years. Moorestown's been riding a wave of popularity among wealthy home buyers and honestly nobody in town cares about NYC or any other location. It's a train ride away and many in town have purposely relocated from the rat races of the cities and want a friendly, quiet, charming, wealthy town with location, top schools, amenities, to raise their kids and that is what it delivers. As the articles point out the rich and famous have lived in town for centuries. But only recently has the town been thrust into the national spotlight. It is what it is. Please get over it already.
I live by Alpine- You must have gone by the Esplanade off 9w ? The homes are definitely huge, rarely do you see home owners outside, only ground keepers and hired help. In the Summer, most homes are empty, as residents go from Alpine to Hamptons.
As for the recession. I'm not feeling any penny-pinching yet. But then again, I still have a job, and I don't live outside my means- People tend to overspend, overbuy, and then can't pay it back, or struggle- check-to-check.
Are you on the chamber of commerce for Moorestown? I sense some homerism here and you are doing anything to bend the facts about your town. This conversation was about ALPINE. Everyone knows that Alpine is a club for the rich, that is why it is so fascinating to see the place. That is why this thread is entitled "Alpine Mansions OMG" and not "Moorestown".
Ive been through most of the Northeastern US so let me educate you. Moorestown is a beautiful town with relatively reasonable prices for NJ, but the affordability is for a reason - the economy within short commuting distance around Moorestown is not as strong and diverse as other parts of New Jersey. What that means is if you can get a stable job in Moorestown vicinity, you will get a steal on a house, but not everyone can achieve this. To the masses, towns like Ridgewood, Westfield and Princeton are more desirable to name a few due to more desirable location (more jobs nearby), closer train stations, and less speculative housing stock. Moorestown is not a train ride away from NY - you need to drive a significant distance first to get to the train station (for NY or Philadelphia). It is at least 1 hr 45 min door to door just to 7th Ave Midtown which is a recipe for hating ones life. If you have to work on the east side or way downtown forget it.
Whats so great about retirement homes in a great school district town? That is a waste of tax dollars for someone on a fixed income. Greenwich and Stamford are a more extreme mix: new homes, old classy homes, dumpy homes, immigrant barrios, etc, mixed in with water views, hilltops, old world apartment buildings, yuppy condo complexes, etc. So what? Many towns/cities across the 50 states have diverse housing stock within their limits. Thats the beauty of America. And of the market of people buying on an international scale, I doubt theyd pick Moorestown over Aspen, CT, or Palm Beach. Sorry.
I thought the house was 45,000sf according to your previous data. It grew 1000sf in a day?
I respect the pride you have in your town, as that is a good thing. But I cant see validity in any of your arguments as you have provided incorrect information (biggest house in NJ), changed numbers between posts, and stretched the truth (ex: DC commutable). Im sensing homerism as strong as Philadelphia sports radio from your end. Congrats on making the top of the list. Applause. I personally like this as it shows priced out Northeasterners that affordability is not limited to FL, NC, TX, etc. I personally think people looking to save a buck should move to places like Moorestown instead of the sunbelt. But towns void of a Main Street like Parsippany and schools like Yonkers High make those lists too so you gotta take it with a grain of salt.
Appreciate the zeal in the response but you have no idea what you are talking about.
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