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No one on here has to justify it. Yes it is really a crime at this point. New York and New England states getting worse by the year as well.
Everyone has a different reason for being drawn to or from certain areas. Of course you have to factor $$ first but beyond that there are other issues. You may live in a place that you could not pay me to live in or vice versa-so many variables.
Since YOU brought up NC, can I ask a sincere question? I've got to imagine taxes will have to go up in the popular relocation areas of the state to keep up with the influx. New schools, services, road upkeep, etc. While I know the taxes will probably never reach NJ levels, I suspect when they do rise the ex-NJ residents will say "Well, I was paying $14K a year in NJ, so $6K (or whatever) sounds like a bargain!". But to a native, this is little comfort since before the influx they were paying a lot less and the direct result of the migration is taxes THEY'VE never seen before. What are you thoughts on that?
I have noticed this (but there are affordable condos and townhomes) and it has puzzled me, but I think I know why - a lot of towns enact these zoning laws that prevent smaller homes from being built on smaller parcels of property (I want to say my town has enacted a 5 acre minimum, which is NUTS!). Plus what you said about "built out" is correct. You'll never see these huge "planned communities" here that you do in places like Highland Ranch and Parker in Colorado. I think this is good and bad - those planned communities typically have about .10 acres of property, zero lot lines, it's really quite strange (to me, at least). Upside is that it makes it more affordable. I only have 1/3 acre, which in places like CO, CA and FL is HUGE, but in my town, will be a hindrance when I go to sell, as average land size is probably close to an acre. I've always found the paradox of NJ being small with big lots -vs- big states with little lots to be interesting.
You too!
Tahiti - That's a great question. I worked for nearly a year for the Union County Public Library part-time (20 Hrs) for big money down here by the "locals" standards ($13.75 - I referred to this amount as my beer & cigarette money) teaching mainly the elderly how to use computers and taught courses for Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and how to use the Internet. Most of my "students" were in their 70's and 80's. They were delighted to take these free courses that the library offered. When they discovered I was from NJ a few of them would say to me, "So you're one of those people that raised my taxes". This would precipitate a lively little discussion for a few minutes, with me telling them how much I paid in taxes for my 3 bd 1 ba Cape Cod on a 45x112 lot in Paterson ($5600). They were shocked - until I told them what taxes would be on a house in a good suburban community (Ridgewood, Montclair) with the typical 4 br 2.5 house and taxes that might range from $9000 - $15000. Many of these folks lived in small homes of 1000 to 1400 sq ft worth maybe $125,000 down here. The lastest county assessment for houses in Union county was done last year so your assessment is very close to market value. The county tax rate for Union is about 67 cents per assessed 100 and the individual towns have a tax rate that ranges from 11 cents up to 57 cents per assessed 100. I live in Monroe which has the highest town rate, but sleep better knowing I have a paid fire department. The town next to me is Mineral Springs which has that 11 cent rate. The whole town budget is $110,000!LOL
Like my neighbor a couple towns over , stmaarten said, the older locals are sometimes annoyed and probably envious of all the "newcomers" and the the more upscale towns to the west of me which border Charlotte are almost exclusively inhabited by former residents of FL, NY, NJ and CA. A $400,000 house down here looks like something that would cost $1.2 million in NJ. (To get an idea of what your own house would go for in NC, divide its present value by 3 and you'll be close). The taxes on such a house would be $2680 for the county tax and your individual town taxes would range from $440 to $2280. If you live in one of the areas which isn't incorporated into one of the towns down here (almost unheard of in NJ!) you just pay the county tax. So if you were like one of my elderly students in the $125,000 (would be $300,000 to $375,000 in NJ) house your tax bill might range from $837.50 to $1550.75.
For me, going from a Cape Cod on .12 acres to a 2900 sq ft Colonial on quarter acre, I feel like I live on a little Ponderosa. My former boss from Colts Neck bought a 4070 sq ft ranch on 2.35 acres. I told her that her front lawn was bigger than some of the parks where I lived.
In regards to starter homes - Charlotte has several areas that consists of mainly starter homes that has turned into a disaster for the residents. These are houses that range in price from $120,000 to $150,000 and looked quite nice when they were first built a few years back. The subprime crisis has turned these areas into little foreclosure cities with scores of houses in the developments turning into crime-infested dumps! The weird thing about NC is that the "bad areas" sometimes look very nice by NJ standards. You know when you see bad sections of a large NJ city that they are "really bad", but an area down here, may look quite middle class by day and be crime-ridden at night! Very confusing for us northeasterners who thought we knew what a bad area was!
NJ is overpopulated, what's so wrong with us losing a few people?
Be very careful what you wish for. Municipal expenditures increase every year with or without a population increase (health insurance, pensions, gasoline, utilities, etc.) A modest population increase can often provide enough revenue to help offset that rise in expenditures. If your tax base starts to decrease, then not only will you have a rise in expenditures but you'll also have a decline in revenues meant to offset them. The result? Higher taxes, of course, in order to plug the gap. Who wants that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by syncmaster
Of course, we're losing smart people, which is a problem.
I wouldn't be so quick to say that. When I read the social sections of the local newspapers here in NEPA, a lot of our young college graduates who are getting married are flocking to NJ. These are people with Master's Degrees and Ph.D.'s, may I add. If your college graduates are fleeing, then they are most certainly being replaced by our mass exodus of college graduates. Even now as an accounting major I can tell you that most of my peers want to move to NJ after college graduation. They laugh at me for wanting to stay in Scranton to earn $40,000 annually while they move to NJ and earn $60,000 annually, but in the end I'll be the one laughing because $40,000 here affords one a comfortable middle-class lifestyle with the option to purchase a home while $60,000 barely keeps your head above water with an apartment in much of NJ. It's an enigma to me as to why so many college graduates fleeing PA for NJ can't see the difference in the cost-of-living.
Last edited by SteelCityRising; 12-30-2007 at 12:38 PM..
Reason: Typo
Be very careful what you wish for. Municipal expenditures increase every year with or without a population increase (health insurance, pensions, gasoline, utilities, etc.) A modest population increase can often provide enough revenue to help offset that rise in expenditures. If your tax base starts to decrease, then not only will you have a rise in expenditures but you'll also have a decline in revenues meant to offset them. The result? Higher taxes, of course, in order to plug the gap. Who wants that?
I wouldn't be so quick to say that. When I read the social sections of the local newspapers here in NEPA, a lot of our young college graduates who are getting married are flocking to NJ. These are people with Master's Degrees and Ph.D.'s, may I add. If your college graduates are fleeing, then they are most certainly being replaced by our mass exodus of college graduates. Even now as an accounting major I can tell you that most of my peers want to move to NJ after college graduation. They laugh at me for wanting to stay in Scranton to earn $40,000 annually while they move to NJ and earn $60,000 annually, but in the end I'll be the one laughing because $40,000 here affords one a comfortable middle-class lifestyle with the option to purchase a home while $60,000 barely keeps your head above water with an apartment in much of NJ. It's an enigma to me as to why so many college graduates fleeing PA for NJ can't see the difference in the cost-of-living.
SWB - I don't understand it either. But I guess with many recent grads with big loans to pay off, they have that mis-guided concept that their bigger salary in NJ will be the solution to all of their problems. But as a former NJ resident, I constantly amazed at the number of NJ students in any given college, anywhere in the nation. NJ never had enough colleges to take care of its own student population. I bet that all the schools in your area have an extremely high number of NJ students. College is certainly an area where the cost increases have far outpaced the national inflation rate. I'm glad I graduated in 1973. My freshman year at William Paterson University in Wayne was covered by the $400 state scholarship I received. The per semester tuition at that time (1969) was $192 and you could take up to 21 credits for that price. The student fee was $6.00 per semester that year. I shudder to think what my degree would cost now!
SWB - I don't understand it either. But I guess with many recent grads with big loans to pay off, they have that mis-guided concept that their bigger salary in NJ will be the solution to all of their problems. But as a former NJ resident, I constantly amazed at the number of NJ students in any given college, anywhere in the nation. NJ never had enough colleges to take care of its own student population. I bet that all the schools in your area have an extremely high number of NJ students. College is certainly an area where the cost increases have far outpaced the national inflation rate. I'm glad I graduated in 1973. My freshman year at William Paterson University in Wayne was covered by the $400 state scholarship I received. The per semester tuition at that time (1969) was $192 and you could take up to 21 credits for that price. The student fee was $6.00 per semester that year. I shudder to think what my degree would cost now!
wow, you're old.
i went to a state school and my college tuition was less than my Catholic HS tuition (not including room and board of course). The state schools are still pretty reasonable - about $5K per semester (considering that's about what I paid for daycare years back, I'd say it's reasonable! ).
It's an enigma to me as to why so many college graduates fleeing PA for NJ can't see the difference in the cost-of-living.
because if you want to rise through the ranks, you'll have an easier time where the HQ is (for instance). I mean, when Ryan Howard got the promotion in Dunder Mifflin, he didn't stay in Scranton, did he?
because if you want to rise through the ranks, you'll have an easier time where the HQ is (for instance). I mean, when Ryan Howard got the promotion in Dunder Mifflin, he didn't stay in Scranton, did he?
See, even in the fantasyland of TV, you can't get anywhere working in Scranton.....lol.
because if you want to rise through the ranks, you'll have an easier time where the HQ is (for instance). I mean, when Ryan Howard got the promotion in Dunder Mifflin, he didn't stay in Scranton, did he?
True. Then again, Scranton devoured Stamford, so there!
i went to a state school and my college tuition was less than my Catholic HS tuition (not including room and board of course). The state schools are still pretty reasonable - about $5K per semester (considering that's about what I paid for daycare years back, I'd say it's reasonable! ).
Hey - Tahiti, 55 isn't old! It's the new 44!. BTW, I was 12 when I started John F. Kennedy HS in Paterson in 1965 and was 16 when I started College. I had to wait everyday for my father to pick me up for the first couple of months until I got my DL in Dec of '69 so I got the nickname - Jailbait.
Nowadays I wouldn't send Osama bin Laden to my old high school. But at least its better than Eastside HS - you know that school where Morgan Freeman played Joe clark in that movie "Lean On Me" complete with the baseball bat! It's funny, my mother went to Eastside in the early '40's and she was just one of a handful of Catholic girls in an almost 100% Jewish school. I think after living in Paterson for 53 out of 55 years, I deserve what I have here, in NC!
I think after living in Paterson for 53 out of 55 years, I deserve what I have here, in NC!
You deserve a gold medal LOL
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