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So because I do not agree with your personal safety choices I must be stupid?
Honestly, I don't know enough about motorcycles/helmets to speak about them...so that is not part of my discussion.
But as for automotive seat belts; barring a few select circumstances (physical abnormalities, etc), I think that not wearing one is a stupid decision. It places you at a tremendous unnecessary risk and also creates a situation whereby that risk could result in a huge burden on those around you.
Now you could extrapolate and say "maybe we shouldn't drive at all"...well, no- because that is a necessary risk that educated drivers and properly equipped vehicles are designed to help mitigate.
As for legislation? No, I think its crap to mandate them; it should be something you do anyway! I believe that part of personal responsibility is personally taking responsibility for the potential burdens of your decisions on those around you. Legally I CAN shoot my rifle in my backyard...but its a really stupid idea since due to the geography I could easily send a round into my neighbors house; so- I shoot at a range instead.
More simply put, I don't like that my insurance costs me that however many cents more per paycheck because someone decided to take the unnecessary risk and not wear their seat belt and instead of getting some bruises- ended up in a coma for a few months.
Honestly, I don't know enough about motorcycles/helmets to speak about them...so that is not part of my discussion.
But as for automotive seat belts; barring a few select circumstances (physical abnormalities, etc), I think that not wearing one is a stupid decision. It places you at a tremendous unnecessary risk and also creates a situation whereby that risk could result in a huge burden on those around you.
Now you could extrapolate and say "maybe we shouldn't drive at all"...well, no- because that is a necessary risk that educated drivers and properly equipped vehicles are designed to help mitigate.
As for legislation? No, I think its crap to mandate them; it should be something you do anyway! I believe that part of personal responsibility is personally taking responsibility for the potential burdens of your decisions on those around you. Legally I CAN shoot my rifle in my backyard...but its a really stupid idea since due to the geography I could easily send a round into my neighbors house; so- I shoot at a range instead.
More simply put, I don't like that my insurance costs me that however many cents more per paycheck because someone decided to take the unnecessary risk and not wear their seat belt and instead of getting some bruises- ended up in a coma for a few months.
Did you read Burgermeisters post? Do you believe your insurance premium is as high as say Massachusetts , which has a seal tbelt law and has had one for quite a while? Do you think it is as high as Vermont which also has a mandatory seat belt law? No..so that is a fallacious argument. As I sated the public burden presentation is a myth, a scare tactic that carries no validity. I also believe in personal responsibility, driving without a seat belt does not make me irresponisible, driving like an idiot does. Strapping an individual into a vehilce who cannot master the tasks of driving in their own lane, driving with the speed limit, using directionals when making a turn, excecuting a turn from the proper lane, driving unimpaired by either alchohol or drugs, does not make the roads safer, reduce accidents or reduce deaths. They still crash, they still kill others and they still die themselves. Seat belt laws have not stopped the carnage because there is no accountability, DUI laws are lax, road rage laws are lax, so people continue to die. Traffc violations are handed as trivial, so people still die.Seat belt laws are a feel good money making pseduo solution that does nothing for the problem but everything to further govermental control of private lives while feeding the goverment troughs.
NH2008- you bring up a good point. If someone doesn't wear a seatbelt their injuries potentially create a fairly large liability tail.
I have long believed that wearing a helmet or seat belt or what-have-you should be a choice left to an adult's discretion...but if you wind up needing medical care after NOT taking said safety precautions, then you should be not be eligible for taxpayer-funded financial assistance for medical or other services should you need it as a result of your injuries. Nearly impossible to enforce, but in principle, that's what I believe.
I also believe in personal responsibility, driving without a seat belt does not make me irresponisible, driving like an idiot does.
What about accidents you don't cause yourself? It's pretty easy to get hit by someone driving like an idiot even when you yourself are driving perfectly safely. Seatbelts are statistically proven to save lives in various types of crashes-- given that, it seems to me that one IS being irresponsible -- or at least foolish -- by not wearing one.
What a leader he is! I am hoping someone with some substance gets elected governor in 2010....
He's just honoring the tradition of governing by waiting for public opinion.
But wouldn't it be better for us if we were required to wear helmets all the time and tie a pillow to out butts so we don't get hurt if we fall down ?</scarcasm>
What about accidents you don't cause yourself? It's pretty easy to get hit by someone driving like an idiot even when you yourself are driving perfectly safely. Seatbelts are statistically proven to save lives in various types of crashes-- given that, it seems to me that one IS being irresponsible -- or at least foolish -- by not wearing one.
YMMV, NDQ
an accident generally occurs because driver A was acting irresponsibly by their poor dring skills and driver B was also acting irresponsibly by their inattentiveness to what was going on around them. In twenty five years of motorcycle riding, through various road conditions in this and other states I have managed to keep the bike upright and out of the collison course of various seemingly blind, careless, manical, and sometimes outright homicidal drivers AND riders. The skills I have picked up riding have carried over into everyday driving.. The only two accidents I have had in the last 30 years involved me being rear ended at a stoplight. Neither time was I wearing a seat belt, neither time did I suffer any injuries, and neither time did I take money from the public coffers. I keep myself fully insured. The public burden myth is again just that.. a myth, a scare tatctic bought by people who do nottake teh time to reason things out. This is how goverment gets your freedoms, selling liberty for implied peace of mind, and in the end you get neither. Truth of the matter is your chances of catasphrophic inury are far more likely to occur at home then on the road. You probally are not carrying enough insurance to cover yourself in the event of it occuring so you are more likely to become a public burden over a lawnmower or snowblower accident then a vehicle one. Your chances of a head injury are far greater inyour bathtub or walking to your local park then the are on a motorcycle. Seems to me that you are being irresponsible for not wearing one as you step in to your Calgon bath.
The 1992 GAO study that declared seat belt laws “work” reviewed only 44 of 2,500 available studies. Certainly, a 1984 study by J. Tolonen and Associates of Finland, which concluded that “ …cervical spine injuries were more common causes of death in victims who had used seat belts than in those who had not (21.3% to 13.7%). “ was not considered. Or the University of Montreal Laboratory on Transportation Safety assessment of 1987 data that concluded that 87% of vehicle occupants who had received neck injuries in accidents were harnessed, and that women suffered 40% more of those injuries than men.
The California Highway Patrol reported in 1998 of the 2,419 victims killed in motor vehicle accidents that year in the state, 1,243 were wearing a seat belt, while 1,176 were not. Did seat belts save lives that year?
New Hampshire, the only state without any adult seat belt law, is the fourth safest state. Of the twenty safest states, half have primary seat belt laws, the other ten, including the two safest states, do not.
You say seat belts save lives? Then why are they not required on the vehicles that carry that most precious of carge..the children of the nation? Where is the public outcry and concern over your children riding unbuckled on a school bus?
Now I can also give you articles that will debate the validity of these. The truth lays somehwere in between, yes seat belts can save lives, yes they can kill lives. Are you stupid for wearing one of your own volition, no, you have made a personal choice, is another stupid for not wearing one? Again no, they have also made a personal choice. Let's keep personal choice alive and say NO to seat belt laws.
CrazyDave,
I can accept that you don't like wearing a helmet for all those reasons, and being a distracted driver is not being a safe driver. I often feel the same way about my seatbelts: they keep sliding up and digging into my throat! I find I fuss with the dang things (and therefore are distracted) much more than I should, but I must wear it because MD requires it in front seats. You don't want a helmet, fine - don't wear one. I'm very glad you've never been in an accident, that's great!
I can also accept that the idea that seatbelt/helmet laws being related to insurance is a myth. I certainly know it hasn't made a bit of difference down here to our insurance.
However, I do disagree about
Quote:
driver A was acting irresponsibly by their poor during skills and driver B was also acting irresponsibly by their inattentiveness to what was going on around them
- too many times there has been no way for driver B to avoid idiot A. I mean, if you're stopped at a redlight and get backended - it has nothing to do with you not knowing what's going on - there's no where for you to go hemmed in by cars. Of if you're pushed off the road/into another car because idiot A changed lanes into you because you were in their blind spot (or they just didn't bother to look). Many times you can avoid it, but not always. Again, I'm glad so far you've been able to.
Quote:
Then why are they not required on the vehicles that carry that most precious of charge..the children of the nation?
uh.... they are. at least they certainly are here. Dunno about up there, but I believe it's becoming pretty standard issue now on buses.
I think the argument against seat belts on school busses has been that you would need an adult to inspect every kid's seatbelt to make sure it was buckled correctly every time, and that's just not feasible. (I also heard a rumor that some kids were hitting each other with them, but I don't know if that's true.) School busses are designed to utilize compartmentalization instead. Those high green seats are placed really close together and have various features designed to keep a kid in place in case of any impact. If you Google it you will find organizations that agree this is enough and organizations that don't, but the design features unique to school busses (apparently they're different and safer than when we were kids) are what make them relatively safe without belts.
Also, school busses are bright yellow, they're a lot bigger than family cars, passengers ride much higher (above the impact zone), they drive relatively slowly, the drivers are professionals, and they stay mostly on surface roads rather than the highway. So, they're both less likely to get in an accident and more likely to fare well than a regular car if they do.
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