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A friend of mine is the ultimate Superman fan — both comics and cinema — and he can't stand Superman Returns and loves Man of Steel. So you can't say it's not Superman. What you CAN say is "that's not my Superman." Which is fine. You prefer older versions.
I sure wasn't the only person saying "That's not my Superman."
I didn't say anything about Superman Returns. I referenced Batman Begins.
Either a new story needed to be told about the old character, or a sufficiently new story needed to be told about a new character.
They tried to pull off a new character without sufficiently writing the story as a new story.
I think what you mean to say is you don't like the film's chronology: no Luthor, no Daily Planet, and Lois & Clark isn't a thing until the end.
Why redo Superman '78 again? They tried it with Superman Returns. That was my point.
Man of Steel was the reboot we needed. (I was there in '78, too, in the theater. )
You're still not getting my point. I'll try again.
The Batman story got turned to camp in the 60s. Tim Burton slightly revived the original darkness of Batman in the 80s, but the story was still pretty campy.
Christopher Nolan revived the character with the intent of presenting him in a dramatically darker way that had never been seen on the screen before, essentially changing the character significantly from what the screen audience had come to expect.
He did it by telling a story that was very, very different in ways that effectively built a different knd of person. He didn't tell the same story that resulted in a different character, he told a different story that resulted in a different character.
In that way, he carried the audience with him and delivered the result we could expect, given the ride he'd taken us on.
Nolan didn't give us a yellow cake mix that resulted in a chocolate cake, he was clearly mixing a chocolate cake from the start and gave us a chocolate cake.
You're still not getting my point. I'll try again.
The Batman story got turned to camp in the 60s. Tim Burton slightly revived the original darkness of Batman in the 80s, but the story was still pretty campy.
Christopher Nolan revived the character with the intent of presenting him in a dramatically darker way that had never been seen on the screen before, essentially changing the character significantly from what the screen audience had come to expect.
He did it by telling a story that was very, very different in ways that effectively built a different knd of person. He didn't tell the same story that resulted in a different character, he told a different story that resulted in a different character.
In that way, he carried the audience with him and delivered the result we could expect, given the ride he'd taken us on.
Nolan didn't give us a yellow cake mix that resulted in a chocolate cake, he was clearly mixing a chocolate cake from the start and gave us a chocolate cake.
Old news, buddy. VERY old news. Nolan essentially completed a translation of, i.e. adaptation of the Englehart-Miller-Dixon Batman to the screen. That's what he successfully did. Apart from some tweaks, we got the best-to-date translation of Batman from comics to screen. Credit the writers of the stories which the Nolans sourced. And yes, the GA (non-readers) benefitted the most, but it was also necessary to UN-camp Batman in every way possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
That's not what happened with Man of Steel.
Enlighten me since you're convinced I don't understand you. Man of Steel provides more Krypton backstory than any previous Superman film and leaves out the Daily Planet. In lieu of, we get a Kal-el who's on a journey of self-discovery. The whole point was to give him an ARC.
Btw, Goyer and Nolan were very much behind Man of Steel, being that the former was the principal writer.
Location: Removing a snake out of the neighbor's washing machine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reed067
This movie went way beyond what other Superman movies have done and I liked it.
What George Reeves did with Superman on early TV, and what Christopher Reeve did with the character in the cinema, are fine enough with me. Same with the original Blade Runner, the first two Terminator films, the Star Wars late 1990s prequels, and the original television shows of the 1960s - '80s.
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