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Apocalypto was a much much better movie than HG. There's just no comparison. The action scenes were more compelling. The sequence at the ball court where Jaguar Paw and the other prisoners were made to run, only for most of them to be killed at the end of the open space by Zero Wolf's son is the type of adrenaline-pumping action that's lacking from HG. Also the subsequent chase through the jungles had that superior caliber of film-making. The cinematography was just stunningly beautiful. Not so with HG. Apoclaypto was entertaining. HG? Blah...
Exactly. For the HG ending to have been a deus ex machina, it would have had to have been an "unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object."
It wasn't any of those things. If you didn't see that ending coming, you weren't paying attention. It was motivated and set up throughout the story. In fact, nearly every scene with Mr. Weird Beard and President Kiefer's Dad were setting this up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf
By changing the rules arbitrarily when there is no evidence these rules have ever been changed before (they've been doing this for 74 years) to favor a District's team that has nothing special about it to deserve favorable treatment meets the definition of a contrived plot device
Again, you must have seen a different movie than I did. Throughout the story, the bad guys were changing the rules of the game, aiding certain players, encouraging dissension and alliances, throwing fireballs at players who neared the no-no zone, and loosing mutant pit bulls just to up the conflict. This entire game was about manipulation and mind games.
You can argue that the climax was sentimental and predictable. You can even argue it was meant to set up sequels. But it certainly didn't come out of nowhere. The entire plot set this up.
But I'm splitting hairs. It's just a popcorn flick after all.
Exactly. For the HG ending to have been a deus ex machina, it would have had to have been an "unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object."
It wasn't any of those things. If you didn't see that ending coming, you weren't paying attention. It was motivated and set up throughout the story. In fact, nearly every scene with Mr. Weird Beard and President Kiefer's Dad were setting this up.
Again, you must have seen a different movie than I did. Throughout the story, the bad guys were changing the rules of the game, aiding certain players, encouraging dissension and alliances, throwing fireballs at players who neared the no-no zone, and loosing mutant pit bulls just to up the conflict. This entire game was about manipulation and mind games.
You can argue that the climax was sentimental and predictable. You can even argue it was meant to set up sequels. But it certainly didn't come out of nowhere. The entire plot set this up.
But I'm splitting hairs. It's just a popcorn flick after all.
Nope the changing of the rules was not predictable. It was a deus ex machina device. It was not consistent with the story's internal logic. Are you saying that the tributes and the audience should have expected the rules to have been changed arbitrarily? The rule I'm talking about is the one allowing 2 survivors. Are we supposed to believe that in the 74 year history of the games, the rulers never thought about creating a love angle to make the games more interesting? Why did they think about it only now? The love angle obviously was never tried before, otherwise Haymitch who had competed in the games in the past should have known the history of winning strategies and would have suggested that strategy to katniss and Peeta before the games even started. It was totally fortuitous that Peeta confessed his crush for katniss that the idea was planted in Haymtch mind that this was the way to save both their lives.
For fiction to work, it should be believable. It is believable if the plot shows fidelity to its own internal logic. If elements that are discordant with the plot are arbitrarily introduced just so certain characters can survive and the story can move forward, it weakens the story tremendously.
You're right, HG is popcorn flick intended to entertain the minds of 13 year olds.
The 74 year thing is very confusing. If this has been going on for 74 years, wouldn't people be sort of used to it by now? Why all of a sudden is there rebellion? Why do the people not seem more hardened to this reality? Why do some of the tributes seem soft and naive? Why is there a need to have this bizarre training period prior to the game? Why are the kids developing a strategy from stratch? Why is 74 years of having 23 of 24 of your kids killed on TV seen as delivering "hope" (per Pres Snow)?
Seems like this would make a lot more sense if the war had occured a few years prior (even then this plot has many issues).
Nope the changing of the rules was not predictable. It was a deus ex machina device. It was not consistent with the story's internal logic. Are you saying that the tributes and the audience should have expected the rules to have been changed arbitrarily? The rule I'm talking about is the one allowing 2 survivors. Are we supposed to believe that in the 74 year history of the games, the rulers never thought about creating a love angle to make the games more interesting? Why did they think about it only now? The love angle obviously was never tried before, otherwise Haymitch who had competed in the games in the past should have known the history of winning strategies and would have suggested that strategy to katniss and Peeta before the games even started. It was totally fortuitous that Peeta confessed his crush for katniss that the idea was planted in Haymtch mind that this was the way to save both their lives.
For fiction to work, it should be believable. It is believable if the plot shows fidelity to its own internal logic. If elements that are discordant with the plot are arbitrarily introduced just so certain characters can survive and the story can move forward, it weakens the story tremendously.
You're right, HG is popcorn flick intended to entertain the minds of 13 year olds.
Obviously this movie has given you a lot to think about and discuss, so it has you somewhat interested.... Any movie I find truly stupid I see no point or waste anytime arguing. It seems like you have a love hate relationship with this movie.
As for the movie: I liked it. I have read the first two books (I lost interest during the third), and I thought the movie did a good job of translating the first book to the screen.
I will note that my wife, who has not read the books, found the movie boring for the first hour or so, although she became more interested when the actual game began.
The 74 year thing is very confusing. If this has been going on for 74 years, wouldn't people be sort of used to it by now? Why all of a sudden is there rebellion? Why do the people not seem more hardened to this reality? Why do some of the tributes seem soft and naive? Why is there a need to have this bizarre training period prior to the game? Why are the kids developing a strategy from stratch? Why is 74 years of having 23 of 24 of your kids killed on TV seen as delivering "hope" (per Pres Snow)?
Seems like this would make a lot more sense if the war had occured a few years prior (even then this plot has many issues).
Excellent questions. That's why the movie loses credibility IMO. Even a fictional story should take pains to tie up these loose ends to make the story more credible. Very amateurish work they did here.
Obviously this movie has given you a lot to think about and discuss, so it has you somewhat interested.... Any movie I find truly stupid I see no point or waste anytime arguing. It seems like you have a love hate relationship with this movie.
Because this is the City Data forum about movies and that's what we are here for: to talk about movies we like or dislike.
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....he made some good movies in his lifetime!
