Polaris Dumping Victory Motorcycles :( (Bombardier, fuel, octane, engine)

[curiousgeorge5]

Originally Posted by Dport7674

To the original post.. Victory bikes were never going to catch on. Offering more over priced cruisers wasn't going to get it done. Honda already has that crowd covered with the goldwing.

The goldwing is a touring motorcycle. Honda still makes cruisers. Their VTX1800 was impressive but it just didn't sell well. Other Japanese makes made some nice performance cruisers but they just didn't sell well enough.

[GnomadAK]

The bride and I were at Sturgis and rode the Victory and the Indian, hard to believe they came from the same company. The Indian is an amazing bike, both in looks and performance, apparently the Indian brand has sunk Victory and HD wil be next. The Victory was just not an engaging bike.

[Dport7674]

Indians problem is the whole 'all vintage all the time' thing. If someone wants a vintage looking American made bike they already own a Harley.

A company like Triumph, who offers the bonnie line and a line of cruisers, but also the daytona, speed3, street3 etc... That's what victory should have tried to become.

[NY_refugee87]

Originally Posted by Dport7674

The same ol Harley rider bashing post ^ that takes up space and takes up our time trying to read it. It's repetitive and boring.


To the original post.. Victory bikes were never going to catch on. Offering more over priced cruisers wasn't going to get it done. Honda already has that crowd covered with the goldwing.

If someone wants to compete with Harley it'll all have to start with a badass lil sportster killer hot rod.

Repetitive and boring or honest and hurts the feels?

I own a 13 wide glide... I've had a sportster back in Ny... Even had a suzuki marauder and DRZ enduro.
I don't pledge any allegiance to any particular bike brand or model.
They all have their ups and downs.

Can't deny Harley gets a lot of coin For an image there are metric cruisers that offer better brakes, liquid cooling, and there's a few that allow for more sharper angles without having to relocate foot pegs and pipes for cornering.

Know what harley has that appeals to me?

A killer exhaust note when the stock system is replaced with short shots and a comfortable saddle and ride. Lots of low end torque to pull wheelies without having to wind it out and "clutch it up" however the factory cams profile doesn't allow for that baby to sing properly. Pulls like a freight train then becomes long winded. A set of cams fixes where it falls short and keeps it pulling HARD.

If someone wants to compete with Harley... Wouldn't be hard to do until Harley sues for exhaust note patent... They're that lame to sue for the exhaust note to suppress the market.

To compete with Harley
Better engine mounts that don't translate vibration throughout the frame causing mirrors to vibrate and wiggle about. Or develops oil leaks.
A pushrod engine that has the low end grunt to get up and go, and keeps on pulling into 6-7000rpm.
Liquid Cooling.
Better brakes.
Stouter forks. With fork seals that don't leak like a sieve...
A solid crank assembly (look at Ducati) not pressed counter weights (flywheels) to a pin.
Gear driven cam system. (Despite getting the tensioner issue solved that plagued the 88 twin cam, gear driven is superior even run gear drives in my stock car race engines)
Adjustable rear suspension.
No goofy fairings, wind screens, and honkin saddle bags.
Some custom styling. Indians and Kawasaki vulcans with the whole retro thing...

Not my cup of tea. LOVE the sportster 72, the wideglide, and the street bob is alright. The dyna low rider S now that I like. Hammer bronze mag wheels, all black bike. That's sharp. Not gawdy/tacky flashy candy paint and chrome all over (chrome don't get ya home)

However that sportster 48, the street glides the heritages, the big balloon tires, fat white walls at that, the ridiculous fairings, audio systems, the paint matched hard bags or even the leather saddle bags, the metallic "custom" paint schemes... Doesn't do anything for me. I'm not 50 suffering a mid life crisis and need a recliner with 2 wheels and storage out the wazoo to have a good time.

Sadly that's the crowd that keeps HD afloat. That's who they cater to. They're missing out big with their models and pricing. I'm not suggesting they end a product that clearly sells, however, If you believe a new wideglide is some sort of good investment at 18k new, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn for sale. One could argue the XL1200R cafe styled sportster for younger crowd, but did you see the price of it? For that money, you'd get a lot more bike in a Ducati.

Make a bike that appeals to the 20-35 year old crowd (not that poor attempt with the street series either) that not only looks mean, but has great performance price it 6-10k they'd sell like hot cakes. Theres no value in Sportsters or streets. Can snag a used bike year old say a sportster 1200 custom or Low for 6k on a bike that a year and 3k miles ago was brand new in a show room for 10-12k...

A windy road, 70s chopper-esque styling (skinny tires mini ape hangers or narrow drag bars) a set of cams and pipes... Ohh yeah.

Again the Victorys all felt bulky to me. Not a fan of big wide honkin fuel tanks, fat tires and fat fenders. Having legs spread somewhat more than the sportster and even the wide glide saddle wasn't comfortable for me, more than an hour or 2 like that and my hips began to hurt. I don't like being spread eagle on a bike... I like a more narrow saddle profile. Some HD models and some metric cruisers offer that.

Victorys turned me off with the inflated tank, wrap around bars, fat tires. Was like a pro drag styled bike started then took a nose dive stage left. The 8 ball, again too bulky.

Definitely didn't care for Victorys stock handle bars either. I like to stretch out straight and up some, not look like I'm about to high speed bear hug someone with those beach cruiser styled bars. The best bike for this was an older friends American Ironhorse Texas/tejas whatever, had the long skinny tank raked out front end. That sucker you were stretched out! And if you rode it hard you had to yank that baby down to go fast into corners. Couldn't go too crazy as the pegs would drag. But the custom pipes that were on it were nowhere near the ground. Pegs shifter and rear brake were to be raised a couple inches and you'd probably be able to lay it more into a corner. But choppers aren't meant for that... Clearly.

Then again growing up on dirtbikes I love having that kind of reach. Have often contemplated putting Renthals on the sportster I owned.

The gold wing isn't a cruiser. Gold wing/aspencade is a touring bike swing your leg over and go from Maine to California only to have to stop for potty breaks and gas. Those baby's are hefty in price and hefty if you manage to drop it. My father had 3 of those things... That's The Cadillac of bikes. In the sense of ride and comfort. And price too...

[Dport7674]

Originally Posted by NY_refugee87

Repetitive and boring or honest and hurts the feels?

I've never been a Harley guy. Triumph here. So to answer your question - repetitive and boring. It brought nothing to the conversation, completely off topic, and was a total waste of time for anyone who bothered to read it.

Idk if you asked me any other questions because there's no way I'm reading that book you wrote.

[NY_refugee87]

Originally Posted by Dport7674

I've never been a Harley guy. Triumph here. So to answer your question - repetitive and boring. It brought nothing to the conversation, completely off topic, and was a total waste of time for anyone who bothered to read it.

Idk if you asked me any other questions because there's no way I'm reading that book you wrote.

Then read what's in Bold and Underlined

[curiousgeorge5]

Originally Posted by NY_refugee87

Know what harley has that appeals to me?

A killer exhaust note when the stock system is replaced with short shots and a comfortable saddle and ride. Lots of low end torque to pull wheelies without having to wind it out and "clutch it up" however the factory cams profile doesn't allow for that baby to sing properly. Pulls like a freight train then becomes long winded. A set of cams fixes where it falls short and keeps it pulling HARD.

Not my cup of tea. LOVE the sportster 72, the wideglide, and the street bob is alright. The dyna low rider S now that I like. Hammer bronze mag wheels, all black bike. That's sharp. Not gawdy/tacky flashy candy paint and chrome all over (chrome don't get ya home)

If you believe a new wideglide is some sort of good investment at 18k new, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

Theres no value in Sportsters or streets. Can snag a used bike year old say a sportster 1200 custom or Low for 6k on a bike that a year and 3k miles ago was brand new in a show room for 10-12k...

HD owners put aftermarket cams in their bikes, of course. It should come like that from the factory unless it is an emissions issue.

The Sportster 72 gets good reviews for handling, which has surprised various reviewers. The Wideglide has a lot of rake. I guess the steering is ponderous at slow speeds. The dyna low rider S does not have sufficient cornering clearance from what I read. Nice bike otherwise.

IMO, the days of Harleys holding high value are mostly gone. There's simply too many of them out there.

Sure about getting a 1 year old Sportster 1200 for 6k? I didn't know the values sank that quickly.

[NY_refugee87]

Originally Posted by curiousgeorge5

HD owners put aftermarket cams in their bikes, of course. It should come like that from the factory unless it is an emissions issue.

The Sportster 72 gets good reviews for handling, which has surprised various reviewers. The Wideglide has a lot of rake. I guess the steering is ponderous at slow speeds. The dyna low rider S does not have sufficient cornering clearance from what I read. Nice bike otherwise.

IMO, the days of Harleys holding high value are mostly gone. There's simply too many of them out there.

Sure about getting a 1 year old Sportster 1200 for 6k? I didn't know the values sank that quickly.

My wideglide is fine for me. It's not some 70s hack job chopper... Rake and trail are equalized, it is maneuverable but not something I'd go take to slalom cones. If there was terrain hills etc like back in NY I'd tell you how good/bad it corners. Alas I'm on flat ground. No mountains with winding corners like upstate ny.

Now a raked and long front set of forks oh yeah.... Very wobbly indeed at low speeds. Especially if the rake and trail aren't proper.

The lowrider S is unique, that's what I like about it. It doesn't fit the typical flashy glitz and glamor of the street glides the heritages and the like. That and 110 cubic inch over the 103.

Yes in Florida you can find a sporty that cheap, browse craigslist even some dealers from west palm to daytona to Orlando. They're literally as common as cars on the road where I live. Baggers and sportys followed by kids with sport bikes. I'm kind of surprised to not see honda furys and vtxs all over. A lot of the bikes I saw the last year I went up to lake George were furys and customized metric cruisers.

It's not uncommon to find MANY bikes with well over 50/60k miles on them. Year round riding weather. Back in NY if you see a bike with 40/50k on it, someone was a rider, and took it out to the west coast or out to sturgis or rode it religiously during the summer and it was 5-10 years old. Many of the bikes down here get easily 10-15k a year on them from what I have seen. NY if a 3 year old bike had 5-8000 miles on it, that was a lot

[curiousgeorge5]

Originally Posted by NY_refugee87

The lowrider S is unique, that's what I like about it. It doesn't fit the typical flashy glitz and glamor of the street glides the heritages and the like. That and 110 cubic inch over the 103.

Yes in Florida you can find a sporty that cheap, browse craigslist even some dealers from west palm to daytona to Orlando. They're literally as common as cars on the road where I live. Baggers and sportys followed by kids with sport bikes. I'm kind of surprised to not see honda furys and vtxs all over. A lot of the bikes I saw the last year I went up to lake George were furys and customized metric cruisers.

It's not uncommon to find MANY bikes with well over 50/60k miles on them. Year round riding weather. Back in NY if you see a bike with 40/50k on it, someone was a rider, and took it out to the west coast or out to sturgis or rode it religiously during the summer and it was 5-10 years old. Many of the bikes down here get easily 10-15k a year on them from what I have seen. NY if a 3 year old bike had 5-8000 miles on it, that was a lot

I think HD has a factory kit that goes beyond 110 cubic inches.

I'll have to check out Craigslist Florida. About the VTXs and other metric bikes, HD apparently owns the cruiser niche. The VTX1800 was impressive but was cancelled. The Mean Streak and Yamaha Warrior were good as well but they didn't sell so they were cancelled.

That's impressive for bikes to have 50/60K miles on them. The riders are real riders, not posers. I would have guessed Florida had many posers just like everywhere else.

[NY_refugee87]

Originally Posted by curiousgeorge5

I think HD has a factory kit that goes beyond 110 cubic inches.

I'll have to check out Craigslist Florida. About the VTXs and other metric bikes, HD apparently owns the cruiser niche. The VTX1800 was impressive but was cancelled. The Mean Streak and Yamaha Warrior were good as well but they didn't sell so they were cancelled.

That's impressive for bikes to have 50/60K miles on them. The riders are real riders, not posers. I would have guessed Florida had many posers just like everywhere else.

They do. The 110 was an option at the dealer for the 103, that kit is the standard engine on the S.

Many are real riders. There's quite a few posers-typically snowbirds. And man do they get heavy with the HD leathers... You do see a lot of trikes down here. From HD trikes to gold wings even a few radical 70s styled VW powered trikes. Wouldn't say bikers in the north east and Midwest who suffer from snow 3-4 months out of the year are posers... But Down here a t shirt and shorts. Plus no deer to worry about jumping in front of you. Just the non drivers that claim they didn't see you. Might not see me you'll surely hear me though I don't putz around in low rpms. I wind it out. There's some places I'd advise you to go check out for good riding, but better have loud pipes or else you'll have Bambi in your lap. (scares them stiff they won't jump out of the woods or a cornfield with something roaring down the road)

I left NY for many reasons. What I love most-no helmet law. I say and mean I live in America leaving that over taxed anti gun overly regulated wasteland behind. I love it. No helmet that's freedom. I don't putz around I also don't go terrorizing the block and neighborhood after 10-2am.

The weather affords year round riding conditions which is great. Except the summer time. It literally gets so hot if you come to a stop and sit at a red light for a while your shoes melt and due to the UV index, you better get a good sun screen lotion on before riding, otherwise you will have the worst sun burn you have ever felt in your life. My sister has a ninja 600 and her jacket rolled up once when we went up to Daytona on the bikes, she had 2nd degree burn/blistering on her lower back...