Mon County Area Roads and Infrastructure (Charleston, Huntington: charge, counties, dry)
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But is the allocation fair to begin with? Should more of our road tax money stay within the district?
That’s a completely different subject when compared to the accusation of allocated money not being spent in District 4 and then that money being spent elsewhere. One is outrageous speculation with no facts whatsoever to back it up and the other is a valid question. One invites unnecessary division in the state while the other looks to make sure things are as they should be.
I have often said, even on this forum, that counties should be given the responsibility and tools to take care of most roads within the county that weren’t federal roads. Let the counties either keep a portion of the gas tax or better yet, allow the counties to enact a sales tax with the stipulation that all of the money raised goes into the roads. This would allow each county to have funds that were relative to the development they have. Then if you keep the state allocations the same, much headway could be made into the conditions of the roads.
There’s a way this discussion can happen though without the division and elitism that comes from some. They point fingers at others and accuse others of being “clannish” and exuding “tribalism” all the whole being the worst example of it. There’s no benefit in that.
You are literally OBSESSED with this Morgantown versus southern West Virginia topic. Can you site sources of the audit that 'proves' they took half of your money? I read a lot of the back and forth banter on previous pages and it seems like that figure was more your personal interpretation/ opinion than anything else. What roads have you recently driven on in southern Wv? Can you also provide the traffic studies that show traffic volumes on 64 through Cabell are lower than those through Morgantown? Could be true but I've never seen those either.
I agree that there is too much focus on North vs South and have posted my experiences with southern legislators who were simply not aware of the problem here. I blame our lawmakers for not shouting it to the rooftops so to speak years ago. To prove that point, look at the attention Preston Co got when they did it. BTW, I read the WV DOT Facebook page comments so I know there are some very poor roads in the Charleston area.
That said, District 4 IS terrible and is past emergency status IMO. Many districts, even in the North are doing much, much better. Here is a report (with video) I saw on the local news last night. In an effort to be "fair and balanced" they had a story about District 8 (Elkins area) that was very positive. I personally know that Tucker County (also in Dist 8) has great roads too. Even District 7 around Barbour Co, (though not as good as Dist 8) is much better than here based on a trip I made last year.
As a contrast to this story, Mon County is short over 20 workers.
District engineers have a report on the staffing situation there, and how that's helping to keep the roads maintained.
The district is almost at its full staffing quota. Specifically at the Randolph County headquarters, they're only two staff members below quota. With about 2,500 road miles in the district, about 880 of those are in Randolph County. District Engineer James Rossi says they're doing okay, but it wasn't easy to get to that point.
"We've been able to build up our staff," Rossi said. "It's been a four year event to get as close as we are now."
One of their biggest projects is Corridor H. Officials hope this will help promote tourism in the area. One local Randolph County resident compared state roads in the county to what she has seen elsewhere. "I think our roads in Randolph County are amazing compared to where we travel place to place," said Anne Beardslee.
But is the allocation fair to begin with? Should more of our road tax money stay within the district?
Can anyone seriously dispute that District 4 roads are not worse than others in the state. A recent trip through Pocahontas and Pendleton counties left me shocked at how much better their roads were.
I've spent time in cities of a similar size in developing countries that have better roads than we do in Morgantown. That's right Morgantown has 3rd world roads.
Division 4 has been understaffed by as much as 50% for years now. State government has used that as an excuse for not doing the properly allotted work here, and for diverting funds elsewhere. It is true that, in general, drivers wages are higher in our area than in other parts of the state. A driver with a CDL license isn't going to go to work for the state for $15 per hour when they can work for a gas company for twice that wage. Instead of doing the logical, as is done in other states, and paying location differential pay so they can hire an adequate number of workers, our state government has used that as an excuse for not getting the work done in our area.
I'm fairly sure that the Fairmont projects that have sprung up over the last 10 years were due to a certain politician that happened to call Marion County home..
The project in question, while looking like the entrance to a royal court, and obviously and garishly appearing like the gateway to an Italian restaurant (almost laughingly so), is only 1 mile long. That pales in comparison with some of the activity south of Sutton.
Last edited by CTMountaineer; 04-26-2019 at 08:44 AM..
I'd hands down easily vote for a 1% sales tax and up to 10 cent fuel tax hike for Mon county IFall of the money raised off of it stayed within Mon county (county commission in charge of the funds and the money is not sent to Charleston to then be sent back up here, to high of a chance for state government to play with the money if it is sent there first), Mon county was then allowed to do repairs, upgrades and create new roads as needed (obviously with input from the DOH to coordinate efforts so as not to do overlapping projects) and the state road funding allocation to Mon county did not decrease at all (and future increases are still treated the same).
This should be a proposal that all politicians throughout the state should easily support, it doesn't take away any money from any other district/county/city, it would allow for better roads for those that are willing to tax themselves further and it is completely local on the decision making. What politicians in the state could possibly be against a county wanting to improve their own roads with their own extra tax money......unless it really is all about jealousy, power, the ability to punish/control and pettiness among our elected representatives in this state.
This again? Really? This was already proven to be completely false. I'll just repost what was previously stated:
The percentages listed in the tables are the percentages of the total budget for each district that were used on core maintenance. Core and non-core maintenance activities are defined in Appendix D beginning on page 40. The goal was for each district to use 70% of its budget on core maintenance. This is why those at 70% or above were highlighted in green because they met the goal. At the bottom of each table, it clearly states that Core percentages are reported on the table. The residual (non-core) percentages are not reported for table formatting interest. Residual percentages are spent on non-core maintenance activities within the maintenance organization of interest. Core and non-core percentages add up to 100%.
In other words, ALL of the money allocated for District 4 was spent in District 4. NONE of it was moved to anywhere else in WV. District 4 just spent around 50% of its allocation on Non-Core maintenance rather than 30% or less, which was the goal. The figures that you speak of were $260 million that was allocated and $300 million was the actual total expenditure. The table on page 38 shows you what was allocated for each district and what was actually spent. Not surprisingly, the extra money was spent in EVERY District. District 4 was usually $3-4 million OVER their allocation each year and as high as almost $6 million in 2013. Starting on Page 31, there is an explanation as the why the goal of 70% spent on Core Maintenance was not met.
So in conclusion, EVERY District got to spend all of the money allocated to that District plus more that was not originally allocated. The assertion that anything otherwise happened is just plain false. No one got cheated.
Take a closer look at the figures in the tables. You will find that of the "core" expenditures, District 2 had closer to 60% of the funding applied while District 4 had closer to 50% of the funding applied. But that is only part of the picture. Discretionary funds were clearly diverted, and the excuse used was they were unable to hire personnel in our district. That isn't our fault. It is their responsibility to get the work done, and they need to pay the prevailing local wages to do so.
I'll add this though, I don't know if Mon county, Preston county, Greene county PA and Fayette county PA have been sitting in the perfect (worst) spot for a particularly nasty freeze-thaw cycle zone or what, but the roads in all four counties are horrendous. You always hear about how good PA roads are and for the most part they are in most of that state, but the last 5-7 years the roads in these four counties have completely deteriorated. Maybe the weather patterns have shifted or something but it seems we have been stuck in a particularly nasty freeze-thaw cycle these last couple years. If it stays warm and gets cold occasionally that's fine, if it stays bitterly cold and rarely warms up that is fine also, but this area has been having non stop hot-cold-hot-cold cycle day in day out every day it seems the last couple winters. That is mainly what is tearing up the roads, the smallest crack lets in water (and boy have we been having a massive amount of water) and then every 12 hours it switches in the freeze-thaw cycle, constantly expanding and contracting until the road has a pothole. While I hate the look of liquid tar as a sealer on every crack on a road, this has become absolutely necessary to apply every year to all of the roads if you want a new paving job/patch to last more than a year or two.
You are literally OBSESSED with this Morgantown versus southern West Virginia topic. Can you site sources of the audit that 'proves' they took half of your money? I read a lot of the back and forth banter on previous pages and it seems like that figure was more your personal interpretation/ opinion than anything else. What roads have you recently driven on in southern Wv? Can you also provide the traffic studies that show traffic volumes on 64 through Cabell are lower than those through Morgantown? Could be true but I've never seen those either.
Click on the link, zoom in on the desired locations, then clock on the little colored circles for detailed traffic volume numbers. https://gis.transportation.wv.gov/aadt/
That’s a completely different subject when compared to the accusation of allocated money not being spent in District 4 and then that money being spent elsewhere. One is outrageous speculation with no facts whatsoever to back it up and the other is a valid question. One invites unnecessary division in the state while the other looks to make sure things are as they should be.
I have often said, even on this forum, that counties should be given the responsibility and tools to take care of most roads within the county that weren’t federal roads. Let the counties either keep a portion of the gas tax or better yet, allow the counties to enact a sales tax with the stipulation that all of the money raised goes into the roads. This would allow each county to have funds that were relative to the development they have. Then if you keep the state allocations the same, much headway could be made into the conditions of the roads.
There’s a way this discussion can happen though without the division and elitism that comes from some. They point fingers at others and accuse others of being “clannish” and exuding “tribalism” all the whole being the worst example of it. There’s no benefit in that.
I would fully endorse your proposal for having counties get the funds for, and perform most of the roadway work. I think that is an excellent idea. As long as the state is performing the work though, they have a responsibility to do so in a way that is approximately equitable for every district in the state. There would be no issue of tribalism if that were actually happening. It is not, and as you mentioned, there is no benefit in that. Assurances need to be put in place to straighten out the mess. A bill was actually passed to do just that, and mysteriously, as highway construction is set to ramp up in Greenbriar County, that bill was vetoed.
Take a closer look at the figures in the tables. You will find that of the "core" expenditures, District 2 had closer to 60% of the funding applied while District 4 had closer to 50% of the funding applied. But that is only part of the picture. Discretionary funds were clearly diverted, and the excuse used was they were unable to hire personnel in our district. That isn't our fault. It is their responsibility to get the work done, and they need to pay the prevailing local wages to do so.
You don’t seem to be understanding how the budget works with core and non-core projects. As an example, let’s say I’m renovating my house and I budget $10,000. I budget $7,000 for the main (core) project with labor and $3,000 for unexpected issues (non-core). The electrical aspect of the project was a bigger undertaking than expected and took up $4,000 or 40%. So that would mean that I only had $6,000 or 60% for the core project while $4,000 or 40% was spent on non-core projects. My money wasn’t spent the way I wanted to spend it but I still spent $10,000 on the project. No one stole the $4,000 and it wasn’t diverted elsewhere. It just took more money to do that part than I budgeted.
The tables clearly show that District 4 had MORE money spent than was initially budgeted, not less. I hope this helps with the understanding of this and stops the spreading of obvious falsehoods. You can argue that more SHOULD be budgeted but that doesn’t change the fact that ALL of the money currently budgeted plus more is currently being spent. It’s just not being spent in the best way.
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they had a story about District 8 (Elkins area) that was very positive. I personally know that Tucker County (also in Dist 8) has great roads too. Even District 7 around Barbour Co, (though not as good as Dist 8) is much better than here based on a trip I made last year.
