French is drastically deteriorating in Montréal, and its suburbs are anglicizing: Soon an Anglo-city? (house, elementary schools)

[DawnMTL]

Originally Posted by jonsereed

We are talking about a weird tribe here, they have all kinds of wacky laws in the books which managed to chase away most old-money anglos and other success driven people while striving to attract french speaking hunter-gatherers.

With its geography and resources Quebec should be an economic powerhouse instead of a hotbed of paranoid nationalism.

You're going to get a lot of flak for that post, but it's not off-base. Shortly before the first referendum, a lot of families (and their businesses) left for Toronto. I was just a kid but, even so, I knew dozens of families who left -- and closed their businesses in Montreal. They didn't want such a heavy-handed regulatory committee (the government) telling them -- among other things -- in what language they could run their business. They also feared that nobody outside of Quebec would want to do business with them.

[Arcenal813]

Originally Posted by DawnMTL

You're going to get a lot of flak for that post, but it's not off-base. Shortly before the first referendum, a lot of families (and their businesses) left for Toronto. I was just a kid but, even so, I knew dozens of families who left -- and closed their businesses in Montreal. They didn't want such a heavy-handed regulatory committee (the government) telling them -- among other things -- in what language they could run their business. They also feared that nobody outside of Quebec would want to do business with them.

Lots of my friends moved to other areas due to this as well, once they finished college.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jonsereed

We are talking about a weird tribe here, they have all kinds of wacky laws in the books which managed to chase away most old-money anglos and other success driven people while striving to attract french speaking hunter-gatherers.

With its geography and resources Quebec should be an economic powerhouse instead of a hotbed of paranoid nationalism.

Awww... come on jonnycakes. Every place has it's quirks and Quebec's are pretty tame compared to most.

It just sticks in your craw more because you're used to having your way and dominating everyone else on this landmass...

[jambo101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Awww... come on jonnycakes. Every place has it's quirks and Quebec's are pretty tame compared to most.

It just sticks in your craw more because you're used to having your way and dominating everyone else on this landmass...

Domination? with draconian language legislation in the form of Bill101 and language police enforcing ridiculous linguistic laws and a slow and unrelenting effort at the eradication of all things English i'd say its French Quebec and its linguistic elites that are the dominators.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jambo101

Domination? with draconian language legislation in the form of Bill101 and language police enforcing ridiculous linguistic laws and a slow and unrelenting effort at the eradication of all things English i'd say its French Quebec and its linguistic elites that are the dominators.

Yes indeed. And that's precisely what bugs some people to no end - they can't stand the idea of the other guy being in the dominant position!

[jambo101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes indeed. And that's precisely what bugs some people to no end - they can't stand the idea of the other guy being in the dominant position!

English North America doesnt seem to feel the need for an equivalent of Bill101 and language police. its a more let the linguistic cards fall where they may rather than legislate a specific linguistic culture.. With 30 million Anglos in Canada and a mere 7 million French its only natural the predominant language will be English, its not a plot against the French its just the way it is.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jambo101

English North America doesnt seem to feel the need for an equivalent of Bill101 and language police. its a more let the linguistic cards fall where they may rather than legislate a specific linguistic culture.. With 30 million Anglos in Canada and a mere 7 million French its only natural the predominant language will be English, its not a plot against the French its just the way it is.

Hahahahahaha.


I think you'd need to read up a bit on history if you think that the English language's domination in North America happened naturally as if it simply grew up out of the ground!

[QuebecOpec]

Originally Posted by jonsereed

We are talking about a weird tribe here, they have all kinds of wacky laws in the books which managed to chase away most old-money anglos and other success driven people while striving to attract french speaking hunter-gatherers.

With its geography and resources Quebec should be an economic powerhouse instead of a hotbed of paranoid nationalism.

That's very easy to say for Anglo-Americans. They banned all non-English languages in the past, and once English has taken over and North America has nearly become solely monolingual, they were using their economic power to eradicate French from Québec. It's interesting to see that Anglo-Americans don't want to know anything about their past when they wiped out non English languages, instead they refer to "freedom of language choice" which is nothing but a code word for the imperialism of English. Anglo-Americans succeeded in eradicating French in the rest of Canada and the northern areas of New England by banning French in the past. There's only Nouveau Brunswick left outside Canada and even there French is steadily declining and English is the majority language.

"A powerful nativist movement pressed for the United States to be a monolingual English state, as Theodore Roosevelt urged. French was banned in Louisiana, and bilingual schools were shut down around the country, immigrant languages were suppressed, and translations were sometimes illegal to send through the mail."

"In 1916, the law required that all children attend public school, where English was to be THE language. This implicitly meant that the Cajun children that were brought up speaking French in their homes would have to learn English. The events were completed in 1921 when the Louisiana Constitution was changed so that all school proceedings had to be conducted in English. This succession of events led to many Cajuns growing up without learning their ancestral language. Stories abound of Cajun children being punished for speaking French at school."

Under British rule French was banned in New France/Canada.

And now, after they have wiped out all non English languages in North America, excluding Québec, and became a monolingual continent, they demonize Québec because it refuses to let itself being anglicised and turn English.

If they did not ban French in the past, Louisiana nowadays probably would not be part of the US, it would likely be a souvereign French or French Creole speaking nation in North America or either a French-majority US-state; and parts of Vermont and Maine, and some other areas in New England and Ontario would also be francophone, what could have lead to the creation of a francophone US-state in New England and even to a souvereign State between Boston and Montréal. There would have been nowadays about 40 million French native speakers in North America if Anglo-America had not eradicated French. Sure, English would despite this remained the most spoken language by far in NA, but French would have remained a relevant language in North America.

The USA and Anglo-Canada act like Muslim nations in Asia that wiped out and discriminated non-Muslim ethnic groups in their countries, and once their nations turned 95 or 99% Muslim, they suddenly declared themselves as countries that respect religious freedom, so does the US and Canada under linguistic aspects.

Originally Posted by DawnMTL

... in what language they could run their business. They also feared that nobody outside of Quebec would want to do business with them.

After Bill 101, Montréal become a major North American centre for video games and continues to be a major North American centre for aeronautics. Montréal is number two in business affairs in Canada and number two in the Québec - New England - New York State super-region. You can be internally French and externally communicate in English, if necessary. Shanghai internally does business in Chinese, and if necessary, it communicates with the outside world in English, this does not mean that Shanghai as a world ubsiness centre should become for economic reasons anglophone, neither should Montréal. Migrants should not have the free choice of language, in my opinion, otherwise they will choose English...

Originally Posted by jambo101

Domination? with draconian language legislation in the form of Bill101 and language police enforcing ridiculous linguistic laws and a slow and unrelenting effort at the eradication of all things English i'd say its French Quebec and its linguistic elites that are the dominators.

There are two holy things in the world: The Bible and the Charter of the French language.
Unfortunately, Ottawa is trying everything it can to undermine the Charter of the French language, it should not dare to touch it. All of Ottawa's decisions are horrible and detrimental to French in Québec, since migrants are allowed to get Canadian Citizenship and pass the test in English or French anywhere in Canada, they can get Canadian Citizenship in English in Québec. Bill 101 needs to be changed and become stricter in my opinion, there are too many exceptions.

Also, Bill 101 is granting also rights to Anglophones, they can attend English school and receive other services in English. There can be English signs as long as a French version is also present. Anglophones now enjoy many more rights than did Francophones in the past. French is so weak in Montréal, to me it feels like no language group is dominating.


What if China would open a private Mandarin University and a private Cantonese university in Greater Vancouver, what if China introduced many Cantonese and Mandarin private schools in Greater Vancouver? What if major Chinese companies settled in Vancouver? How would people in Vancouver feel about it? Will they then cry for languages laws after having insulted Québec for Bill 101? If they don't have double standards, they would have to allow the unrestricted use of Chinese throughout BC. I would like China to bring more of its companies to Vancouver and actually make Mandarin and Cantonese to become stronger languages there. China should make British Columbia feel, what Québec does have to feel each day.
We will see what the future will bring.

[jambo101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Hahahahahaha.


I think you'd need to read up a bit on history if you think that the English language's domination in North America happened naturally as if it simply grew up out of the ground!

So you are saying it was a contrived conspiracy to dominate the French?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jambo101

So you are saying it was a contrived conspiracy to dominate the French?

There were deliberate measures to eradicate or at least seriously compromise the viability of all languages except English basically everywhere that is today part of the United States and Canada. That's a historical fact.