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I wasn't passing judgement on white flight either way.
But it is often based on an unwillingness to adapt to changing circumstances, and the sentiment that "we're supposed to be in charge here, and if we're no longer going to be, we'll just move to a place where we (still) are."
In the case of Montreal while some people may have feared it, it wasn't really about forcing anglophones to become francophones, but rather that anglos make an effort to learn a bit of French to function in a francophone society.
Miami is another example where it wasn't about forcing local white anglos to become Cuban or Hispanic or Spanish speakers. There in spite of what some people say most Hispanics adopted English and the functional language of the city did not really change, but whatever change their was was still too much for people to take.
North America would be a poorer place without a francophone Quebec. So, what's the real solution to the problem of creeping Anglicization in the province (nation?) of Quebec?
It doesn't seem like Quebec will be able to preserve its identity when it is part of a Anglo federation that is constantly trying to undermine it. Also, it is bordered by the largest English-speaking nation on the planet to its south. North America is not Europe, with its many nations and cultures. It is 85% Anglo, and the rest hispanophone and francophone.
But long-term Quebec will have to be independent to survive as a francophone people. Tough luck for the Anglophone Quebeckers, but then they have a whole continent of English speakers to become new neighbors with. Or they can adapt themselves to their environment, like everyone else does.
I wasn't passing judgement on white flight either way.
But it is often based on an unwillingness to adapt to changing circumstances, and the sentiment that "we're supposed to be in charge here, and if we're no longer going to be, we'll just move to a place where we (still) are."
In the case of Montreal while some people may have feared it, it wasn't really about forcing anglophones to become francophones, but rather that anglos make an effort to learn a bit of French to function in a francophone society.
Miami is another example where it wasn't about forcing local white anglos to become Cuban or Hispanic or Spanish speakers. There in spite of what some people say most Hispanics adopted English and the functional language of the city did not really change, but whatever change their was was still too much for people to take.
You were making a blanket statement about "white flight". I don't think Anglos leaving Montreal in the 1970s (or later) is anywhere near the equivalent to whites leaving Detroit after the 1967 riots or contemporary South Africa.
It would have been suicidal for whites to stay in Detroit. If your parents were living in Detroit in the 1970s, would you have liked them to stay and adapt or be unwilling to adapt and leave?
In the case of Montreal while some people may have feared it, it wasn't really about forcing anglophones to become francophones, but rather that anglos make an effort to learn a bit of French to function in a francophone society.
And you think they didnt? all kids graduating from school in the last 20 years have a working knowledge of FRench and those Anglos working in a French Milieu have adapted ,so i'd say Anglophones and Allophones have made that effort exceedingly well.
And Wren while i agree with your assessment on Quebec separation it certainly wont be happening anytime soon as the PQ are in third place for the upcoming provincial election.
You were making a blanket statement about "white flight". I don't think Anglos leaving Montreal in the 1970s (or later) is anywhere near the equivalent to whites leaving Detroit after the 1967 riots or contemporary South Africa.
It would have been suicidal for whites to stay in Detroit. If your parents were living in Detroit in the 1970s, would you have liked them to stay and adapt or be unwilling to adapt and leave?
I get that and realize that every situation is different and unique. But fundamentally it's the same mindset that was behind these phenomena.
Plenty of whites still stuck around in Detroit and even more did in South Africa.
The real question is whether or not the "white flight" people would have stayed if the incoming or newly empowered black population had been of a more similar socio-economic status to theirs.
That pretty much same goes with the Eastern Townships of Quebec. I heard English spoken in Magog when I was there last year and some folks are fluently bilingual but by and large the entire region is predominantly Francophone.
The townships are predominantly French and have been for awhile now. But Saint-Lazare, Hudson, Pincourt are majoritarily English. Depending on the day, you can easily hear more English than French in those areas and in Vaudreuil-Dorion.
The townships are predominantly French and have been for awhile now. But Saint-Lazare, Hudson, Pincourt are majoritarily English. Depending on the day, you can easily hear more English than French in those areas and in Vaudreuil-Dorion.
Of all those places named, I believe that that's only true of Hudson if you look at the stats.
Globally French is falling as the most useful and highly used international language
As far as the "most useful and highly used international language", France lost that battle more than half a century ago. That's not really what we're talking about here.
I get that and realize that every situation is different and unique. But fundamentally it's the same mindset that was behind these phenomena.
Plenty of whites still stuck around in Detroit and even more did in South Africa.
The real question is whether or not the "white flight" people would have stayed if the incoming or newly empowered black population had been of a more similar socio-economic status to theirs.
"Plenty" is a stretch. In 1950, Detroit's total population was 1.8 million. In 2010, the total population was less than half that at 713,777. In 1940, 90.4% of Detroit's population was non-Hispanic white. In 2010, this figure was 7.8%. Whites are clustered around the downtown core. Other areas they abandoned or surrendered. Keep your eye on South Africa. History is still being written there.
A lot of wealthy blacks prefer to keep with like kind. I live in metro DC. Better-off blacks prefer all-black parts of the city itself or all black suburbs in Prince George's County.
To be fair to these white flighters, the blacks who *took over* Detroit were not of similar socio-economic status. By 1970s, black children were 2/3rds of Detroit schools. Many white parents made the decision to leave for their children... poor academic outcomes and fear for their children's safety at majority black schools. So, fundamentally, it was a rational choice for white flighters to leave.
Last edited by 2ner; 06-14-2018 at 08:40 AM..
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