French is drastically deteriorating in Montréal, and its suburbs are anglicizing: Soon an Anglo-city? (moving to, relocating)

[jambo101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't know why these co-workers (francophone or otherwise) should be expected to express public pride in being Canadian while working in (IIRC)... a dairy plant.

Because they live in Canada and are considered Canadians, if you dont like your country either move to one you do like or make a country of your own rather than begrudgingly using a countries social benefits and giving nothing back in return. Also AJ if you were immigrating to North America where would you move?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jambo101

Because they live in Canada and are considered Canadians, if you dont like your country either move to one you do like or make a country of your own rather than begrudgingly using a countries social benefits and giving nothing back in return.

There is no mandatory "threshold" for displaying pride in Canada that everyone should meet. Nor should there be for that or for pride in being Québécois, Montréalais or whatever.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jambo101

Also AJ if you were immigrating to North America where would you move?

That would depend on what I was looking for in my new home.

[jambo101]

Bottom line is not what you or i think its what future immigrants think and decide.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jambo101

Bottom line is not what you or i think its what future immigrants think and decide.

But just like any other place we do have control over who we let in and under what conditions.

[Natnasci]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is no mandatory "threshold" for displaying pride in Canada that everyone should meet. Nor should there be for that or for pride in being Québécois, Montréalais or whatever.

Agree.

[QuebecOpec]

Originally Posted by fusion2

You really want Quebec to separate don't you Jambo lol.. I would like to see more Anglos from Quebec embrace the R.O.C.. We're waiting for you buddy

We need more Anglo separatists like Jambo. If Canada wants to be loved by me, please organize a nationwide referendum and kick Québec out of the federation

If Canada does it, I'll cry tears of joy, that would be the greatest thing it could ever do

Originally Posted by fusion2

Well let's get the rest of em

We will happily send you more Anglos, from all boroughs
Anglo outflows are more popular than game shows

no matter whether they are from Chicago or Glasgow,

we preferably only accept francophones from Monaco

speaking English stinks
and is a violation of Québécois feelings
no matter how qualified or talented they are,

we put them into a car
take your money with you and your dirty dollars

and don't forget your collars
Are you unhappy in Dollard Des Ormeaux?
Direction Toronto, so let's go

Originally Posted by Acajack

Côte-d'Ivoire - French

Côte dI'voire is an interesting country because it keeps in English its pure French name, while even Canada fails to spell Québec with an accented é. Is it the most francophone African country?

Originally Posted by Natnasci

I'm going to dispute your statement " Quebec in not way feels itself Canadian..."

My guess Jambo, is that you may have surrounded yourself with like-minded people, and therefore are getting a skewed view of what may be really happening??

Are these people that you know real francophone Québécois de souche or migrants? Because nearly all migrants are actually really positive towards Canada.

Supporting to stay withing Canada does not mean that Québécois feel Canadian, it is more angst that Québec's economy could crush, angst that Québec could become poorer because that's what unionists and Ottawa told Québécois before 1995.

The mutual relationship is rather based on angst and being bought by Ottawa to stay in the Union, than on mutual values and love.

I would compare the relation of Québec-Canada to the relation between Hungary and the European Union. They are all in it only for money and actually don't want to be in it.

So as long as British Columbia and Alberta tranfer payment checks to Québec, most Québécois will (unfortunately) vote for unity.


Can Vancouver also please accept some migrants from Québec who don't want to learn French? Can we send them to you?

Originally Posted by jambo101

I get my viewpoints from working with 300 francophones in an almost entirely French milieu for 30+ years,never ever heard one of these co workers express pride in being Canadian, i also have much family and friends living in the ROC and from my conversations with them they dont care about Quebec, that big outpouring of support from the ROC back in 95 for Quebec to stay in Canada wont be repeated if another referendum were to be held. IMO

Good colleagues you have. The only Québécois that ever expressed pride for Canada were Anglo-Canadians that were "shipped by bus and airplanes" (and were paid for it by Ottawa in 1995) to come as disguised Québécois. They could not even speak French and had their posters written in French by a pro-union agency.


Unfortunately I had to make the horrifying experience and met once a Québécois who identified with Canada first, he was very liberal, too liberal
Most are good francophones, though, and don't betray their province



But jambo, you're good, too. Anglo separatists are welcome in Québec. I also welcome in general the historic Anglo community as long as no newcomers will use English and integrate into their community... If Québec seperates, and other Anglos will leave, we will promote and advance you. You will get a top boss job that was previously held by some other anglo that will have left. We are united by our wish to be a real nation.

Originally Posted by Urban Peasant

Just in from CTV news:

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/pq-immig...real-1.3940432

Thoughts?

I appreciate that PQ only wants to allow migrants who already know French before they arrive. About relocating them to the rural areas...I think it's unlikely that migrants will go the rural areas, they had the free choice in the past and always overwhelmingly preferred Grand Montréal and the majority of the rest chooses Québec City or Sherbrooke, which isn't rural either. I just can't imagine that they'll go the more far-away areas. Nice plan PQ, but it will fail. But please make "only French knowing migrants" reality.

Originally Posted by jambo101

That should entice quality immigrants to come to Quebec, Come to Quebec and instead of living in a vibrant city and realizing your dreams you must live out in BF nowhere where its entirely French,ITS THE LAW!

BF...what is BF? Bush & Forest ville?

Originally Posted by UrbanLuis

I encourage immigrants to settle outside of major cities. It is where you will find the last remnants of Canadian culture. I feel blessed to have grown up in Nova Scotia. Rural Quebec seems cool to me.

Yeaha but Atlantic Canada and rural Québec are excactly only the last remnants of Canadian culture because they have no (mass) migration. So, if they will have more migration...nothing of Canada will anymore be historic Canadian or historic Québécois. Let rural Québec be like it is now, Montréal is already too global and more than shocking for them. Migrants form France are OK for rural Québec. You can send migrants from rural France or Belgium to Rimouski. TThat's OK. But please don't stress other Québécois with migrants who do not want to integrate.

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not everyone speaks English either.

If I arrive in Canada and speak neither English nor French, whether I move to Chibougamau and have to learn French or move to Lethbridge and learn English, it's the exact same thing.

Good argument.

I was just reading a study by Conseil supérieur de la langue française, one of Québe's observe-French institutions about allophones who don't integrate.

http://www.cslf.gouv.qc.ca/publicati...bf315/f315.pdf

page 22

Do you know what is crazy, mind-blowing and beyond unacceptable????????

Almost one half of migrants upon arrival does not know that Québec is a French-speaking province!!!!

« Les gens de certaines origines disent : “On nous a dit qu’à Montréal, c’est
bilingue. [On nous a dit que] c’est bien qu’on parle anglais. Bon, on [nous a dit qu’on] peut apprendre le français, mais c’est bien. Donc il y a déjà un peu cette information qui n’a pas été bien communiquée dès le début. Un peu plus de la moitié (12) des immigrants rencontrés savaient avant d’immigrer que le français est la langue officielle du Québec."


Immigrants who refuse to learn French, said: "We were told that Montréal is bilingual and that it's good to know English. They told us that we can learn French as a bonus. But well...English is enough, we thought before arriving."
Another migrant says:

37

« Je ne savais même pas qu’ici on parle français. Je ne savais pas cela et,
lorsque je suis arrivée ici, je me suis dit : “Oh!
C’est français, c’est très
important!” »



"I did not know that French is spoken here. It seems...it's important!?" But despite that, she integrated int the Anglo acommunity.

How on Earth can someone move to Québec not informing him or herself about the language?? They think it's natural that Québec is English like the rest of Canada.


One more migrant said in the study:
« Alors [l’agent de recrutement] m’a dit que [les Q
uébécois] parlent un français canadien et que je pouvais y aller même en parlant
anglais, que je pouvais étudier [là-bas]. Et j'ai dit : “Il y a une université où je peux étudier en anglais?”
Et il a dit : “Oui, il y en a seulement deux, [mais] elles sont bonnes.” »



"A migration agency told me that I could live in Montréal only in English and work in English, totally normal. He told me that I could study. I was surprised. Initially I thought Québec was French-speaking, but I was very surprised to find out that there are even two full English-language universties."

One migrant, page 27 in the study, refuses to learn French and blames the francophones because they make French not mandatory and that therefore there is no sense to learn it, as she can live totally fine in English only:

« Bien sûr, si tout l’environnement et tous les services disponibles peuvent être
obtenus dans les deux langues, quelle est mon obligation, mon intérêt à
développer davantage une troisième langue qui, trèssouvent, [est] le français?
Si tout l’environnement permet de s’intégrer sans p
arler français, ça constitue selon nous un obstacle important pour ces gens. »
Migrants thinks of Québec as a bilingual province where they can make the choice to live in English only, and unfortunately the Canadian constitution grants them this right...


I feel really shocked but I am not surprised, it basically confirms what everyone knew: A large proportion of migrants has no interest in learning French and wants to live only in English. They feel very entitled!!!


Returning to your point, Acajack. In the study there is a statement from a Latin American migrant from Columbia who refuses to learn French and fins it hard "because the pronunciation is difficult" and words are not written like spoken. True. This applies to English, though, too. So how on Earth can he or she find English pronunciation easier and more logical than French pronunciation??? Migrants are very creative when they have to find excuses not to learn French. But most are honest: they don't learnt it because they don't have to it.

[UrbanLuis]

If anything living in rural areas helped me integrate. I am glad it worked that way for me. Many immigrants do want to integrate.

[UrbanLuis]

He would be an exception. Most latinos in Quebec speak French. It is much easier to learn than English.

[QuebecOpec]

Originally Posted by UrbanLuis

If anything living in rural areas helped me integrate. I am glad it worked that way for me. Many immigrants do want to integrate.

Originally Posted by UrbanLuis

He would be an exception. Most latinos in Quebec speak French. It is much easier to learn than English.

Yes, most immigrants want to integrate... ...into the Anglophone's community. And if not...if they are large enough...they create their own communities in which they can integrate.
Non francophone migrants will probably never go to rural Québec, because there is no English West Island and no McGill around. The study revealed that migrants shamelessly exploit Montréal's anglophone institutions, so that they can loophole and dodge French. It goes even so far that francophones are blamed because they allow it. Well, I can't deny the government is the naïf one. They say "Migrants will learn French anway, we do not need to force them". Look at the results... An allophone woman stated that she went to West Island solely because there she is least confronted with French. Under such conditions, West Islands Anglo community will always get a new boost, it seems like Anglo areas for the sole reason of being partly English even attract migrants...So migrants make the more English areas, even more English and reduce the share of French spoken...
Yes, Latinos speak French. Though, some think of Canada as a totally bilingual country...and Québec as blingual, too..and think that English is enough. Especially the Latinos who tried to make it first into the US and Anglo-Canada and where rejected, but already learnt English for US & Anglo-Canada and only use Québec as an alternative.