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Old 06-19-2013, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
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What does it mean to be bilingual in Canada anyway? Does it mean being able to read and understand Les Miserables and Shakespeare?
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
What does it mean to be bilingual in Canada anyway? Does it mean being able to read and understand Les Miserables and Shakespeare?
The standard is somewhat lower than that. Generally, it is defined as being able to sustain a conversation.
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:03 AM
pdw pdw started this thread
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Your hatred of immigrants disgusts me.
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Your hatred of immigrants disgusts me.
What ON EARTH are you talking about? On nage en plein délire... swimming in delirium here.
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Not everyone views things through the Anglo-Quebecers' rights prism.

Quebec at the moment gets more immigrants in total numbers than any other province except Ontario.

Relative to population, Quebec takes in more immigrants that the good old United States of America.

In an average year, Quebec takes in more immigrants in sheer numbers than most US states with a comparable or slightly higher population (VA, PA, OH, MI, IL, GA, NC). It also takes in as many immigrants as New York, which has double Quebec's population (just under 50,000 for each).

Still relative to population, Quebec takes in more immigrants than the immigrant boom states of CA, FL and TX.

While some subgroups like anglophones and English-oriented immigrants (especially those who don't know any French) have high departure rates, overall Quebec holds onto its population in a higher proportion than any other Canadian province.
You seem rather proud of those immigration numbers AJ.'In fact it almost seems that new immigrants are preferred over long term established Quebec Anglos. Ultimately all these immigrants will overwhelm your fragile legislated culture and you'll be calling them the immigrant oppressors.
Will immigrants save the French language in Quebec, or hasten its demise? - Canada - Macleans.ca
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
What does it mean to be bilingual in Canada anyway? Does it mean being able to read and understand Les Miserables and Shakespeare?
Canada isnt really bilingual its basically French in Quebec and English mostly every where else,
So why would Canada bother to go to all the trouble of declaring the country officially bilingual?
Wouldnt have anything to do with Quebec bringing 75 parliamentary seats to the house would it?
Quite a powerful bloc to any aspiring ruling party and rather easy to see why Quebec gets what it wants.
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
You seem rather proud of those immigration numbers AJ.'In fact it almost seems that new immigrants are preferred over long term established Quebec Anglos. Ultimately all these immigrants will overwhelm your fragile legislated culture and you'll be calling them the immigrant oppressors.
Will immigrants save the French language in Quebec, or hasten its demise? - Canada - Macleans.ca
I certainly never make blanket statements about immigrants and don't consider them to be a *threat* to the French language. There are many immigrants who have lived in Quebec for barely five years who are better integrated in this society than some born and bred Anglo-Quebecers whose families have been in Montreal for 200 years.

Actually I think this is what really makes some Anglo-Quebecers PO'd. They see a lot of immigrants fairly quickly integrated as part of the Québécois gang (because they enthusiastically embrace the main language and culture of the place) and on the other hand they persist in slogging along in English exclusively and expecting all francophones they encounter to switch to English just for them, and then complain they aren't included as "part of the gang"

(Not saying this is your case jambo as you seem to be fairly well integrated.)
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:37 AM
pdw pdw started this thread
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Quebec's culture and society is not French, but bilingual. Immigrants coming to Quebec and speaking English instead of French as their first official language aren't refusing to adapt to "the culture", but rather adapting to it to the exact same extent as they would be if they were speaking French as their first official language. It's an undeniable fact that the provincial culture you are so proud of would be unrecogniseable without English.
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,876 posts, read 38,019,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Quebec's culture and society is not French, but bilingual. Immigrants coming to Quebec and speaking English instead of French as their first official language aren't refusing to adapt to "the culture", but rather adapting to it to the exact same extent as they would be if they were speaking French as their first official language. It's an undeniable fact that the provincial culture you are so proud of would be unrecogniseable without English.
Quebec in my view is not a bilingual province. It is a primarily francophone province with an established and historic anglophone minority within it.

In light of this, it is not surprising and indeed normal that a number of the immigrants to Quebec wil gravitate to its English-speaking community, especially if those immigrants are originally English speakers themselves. That said, it is not desirable nor acceptable for 80-90% of the immigrants to gravitate to Quebec's English community (and for this anglicization to be done with Quebec government-paid institutional support via schools. etc.) as was the case prior to 1976. (Often never learning any French at all.)

Nor is it desirable or acceptable for these immigrants who do have a natural and normal leaning for English to eschew the fact that the wider society they live in is mainly francophone, and to refuse to learn and use French in their interactions with francophones and expect members of the majority to make "the switch" just for them all of the time.

It also neither desirable nor acceptable for the anglo community to claim some kind of God-given right to integrate most of the immigrants to Quebec (regardless of natural leanings to English or not) in order to shore up its numbers and replace the native-born of their community who have a tendency to leave for other parts of Canada, often because of a strong resistance to learning and using French.
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Old 06-19-2013, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,876 posts, read 38,019,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Canada isnt really bilingual its basically French in Quebec and English mostly every where else,
So why would Canada bother to go to all the trouble of declaring the country officially bilingual?
Wouldnt have anything to do with Quebec bringing 75 parliamentary seats to the house would it?
Quite a powerful bloc to any aspiring ruling party and rather easy to see why Quebec gets what it wants.
Contents



Actually, it doesn't have much to do with Quebec's 75 seats at all, or at least not most of them because in the late 60s most Quebec politicians would have been satisfied with a French-only Quebec, English only ROC arrangements. It was the federal government (and especially Trudeau) that did not want this due to Trudeau's soft spot for the anglo community in Quebec and heavy lobbying from the Montreal anglo community (highly influential at the time) for the feds to not let them be "condemned" to a French only future in Quebec.

The Government of Quebec, regardless of political stripe, has never been a strong proponent of coast-to-coast bilingualism in Canada, and the Members of Parliament that Quebec sends to Ottawa have for the most part shared this view (even though they voted for it in respect of party discipline), except for the odd anglo among them of course.
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