why are some people so mad? (Billings, West Yellowstone: neighborhoods, standard of living, restaurants)

[GLS]

Originally Posted by Reziac

4 guys are driving cross-country together -- one from Idaho, one from Nebraska, one from Montana, and the last one is from California. A bit down the road the man from Idaho starts to pull potatoes from his bag and throws them out the window.

The man from Nebraska turns to him and asks, "What the hell are you doing?"

The man from Idaho says, "Man, we have so many of these damned things in Idaho they're laying around on the ground - I'm sick of looking at them!"

A few miles down the road, the man from Nebraska begins pulling husks of corn from his bag and throwing them out the window.

The man from Montana asks "What are you doing that for?"

The Nebraskan replies, "Man, we have so many of these damned things in Nebraska I'm sick of looking at them!"

Inspired by the others, the man from Montana opens the car door and pushes the Californian out.

That's a good one..........and I'm from California. If you reversed it and told that joke out here, a Californian would probably be more concerned about what kind of car they were driving. I sent you a rep point to see if your computer is working.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by GLS

That's a good one..........and I'm from California. If you reversed it and told that joke out here, a Californian would probably be more concerned about what kind of car they were driving. I sent you a rep point to see if your computer is working.

Well, the blinkenlights are still on, so it must be

Funny about the car thing... I drive a 30 year old pickup truck. When I lived in MT, that was nothing unusual; middle-aged pickups were everywhere. Here in SoCal, it's almost uniformly the oldest vehicle in sight -- usually by at least 20 years!

I can't think of it as "old" since it's not a 1960 or older model

[Timberwolf232]

I heard a similar one not too long ago, except it ended with Hillary Clinton getting tossed out of an airplane...

Still haul my camper with a 1977 ford 1/2 ton.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf232

I heard a similar one not too long ago, except it ended with Hillary Clinton getting tossed out of an airplane...

Still haul my camper with a 1977 ford 1/2 ton.

That version has political promise

Hey, almost the exact same truck, just round headlights instead of square!!

[peering closely] Are you sure you aren't me by mistake?

.

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by Reziac

That version has political promise

Hey, almost the exact same truck, just round headlights instead of square!!

[peering closely] Are you sure you aren't me by mistake?

.

[Looks back at screen, taps it and raises eyebrow] Hmm...

[Zeeburt]

Wow... it is sad how many people here actually think economic growth and prosperity are bad things. If an area becomes more expensive, it is because it is becoming more desirable and economic activity is picking up. Of course this means that those who own property will see the value increase, those who rent will find it tougher to afford (unless, of course, they are participants in the economic boom). Every area and economic cycle has winners and losers - there is no way to change this exept for pure socialism, where *everyone* loses.

If you want to find a place where homes and the cost of living are cheaper, simply move to an area where the economy is depressed and/or falling apart. Things will be cheap and you'll be happy.

I'm thrilled about Bozeman's growth and I am working my butt off to do my part to make it happen (I employ people, I work hard). If I cn double my net worth and income by working 70 hour weeks and the cost of living goes up 30% too, I'm going to be happy - not sad. If I ever change my mind and don't want to keep working hard nor keeping up with change, I'd probably move somewhere that is not growing. I don't think it is my right to complain about the free market nor proclaim what I think is a "fiar price"... I know that supply and demand determines that.

Originally Posted by Timberwolf232

Montana today and Colorado in the 80's are very similar. Fortunately we don't have a Denver close by.

Seems like CO started to go downhill when the big telecom companies started to set up shop in the Denver tech center, and when the movie and music stars started buying up property because it was the trendy thing to do. Aspen is the only town I've ever seen that had credit card swipers on the parking meters!

Some of Western Montana is headed that way, there are properties that I remember looking at in Gallatin County, and dreaming about years ago on the river I could have bought (but then the prices were still a bit high!) for anywhere from 100-250K 8-15 years ago that are in the 7 figure range now after being bought and sold by investment minded people.

The middle class still has a presence here, but if the rich cats get their way it'll be the haves and the have nots before too awful long.

[mattman3seven]

Some areas are better left the way they are. And Montana is one of those areas. There are too many areas that have the growth you seem to covet. People that live in MT(for the most part) want the simple life, not a growing community. If we wanted a prosperous, growing community, we would move to a city area that can flourish. Montana is the beautiful country and we want it to stay THAT WAY. Sure, we want it to "flourish", but not in a city way...know what I mean?

Originally Posted by Zeeburt

Wow... it is sad how many people here actually think economic growth and prosperity are bad things. If an area becomes more expensive, it is because it is becoming more desirable and economic activity is picking up. Of course this means that those who own property will see the value increase, those who rent will find it tougher to afford (unless, of course, they are participants in the economic boom). Every area and economic cycle has winners and losers - there is no way to change this exept for pure socialism, where *everyone* loses.

If you want to find a place where homes and the cost of living are cheaper, simply move to an area where the economy is depressed and/or falling apart. Things will be cheap and you'll be happy.

I'm thrilled about Bozeman's growth and I am working my butt off to do my part to make it happen (I employ people, I work hard). If I cn double my net worth and income by working 70 hour weeks and the cost of living goes up 30% too, I'm going to be happy - not sad. If I ever change my mind and don't want to keep working hard nor keeping up with change, I'd probably move somewhere that is not growing. I don't think it is my right to complain about the free market nor proclaim what I think is a "fiar price"... I know that supply and demand determines that.

[Zeeburt]

Originally Posted by mattman3seven

Some areas are better left the way they are. And Montana is one of those areas. There are too many areas that have the growth you seem to covet. People that live in MT(for the most part) want the simple life, not a growing community. If we wanted a prosperous, growing community, we would move to a city area that can flourish. Montana is the beautiful country and we want it to stay THAT WAY. Sure, we want it to "flourish", but not in a city way...know what I mean?

Yes, I understand. Some people are content with a lower standard of living and a simpler life. However, those people should accept the fact that they will be unable to afford what they want, as insisting on a low standard of living is also insisting on not keeping pace with economic growth. Life is competitive... if others progress and make and produce more and you choose not to, then you have to accept the consequences. Legislating failure to grow is not fair to those who want to earn more and live better, so even if you find a group of people who want to do and have less, they have no right to hold back everyone else. There is, fortunately, a solution. Take, for example, what the Amish do in PA.... they own a large area of land and live how they choose on it, isolating themselves from the outside world. If you can find enough people who want things to remain simple, why not get them together and buy a remote undeveloped area and keep it that way?

[ElkHunter]

ZeeBurt,

You make an excellent point about growth. The economy will grow, housing will go up, land will go up, but here's the problem. Those things have happened. However, the wages have not gone up. No cost of living increase. Maybe a 2 or 3% raise every other year.

It's nice that my land doubled in price over 10 years. But I'm still making $10 an hour. Seems to be the mantality. Plus, the land has only gone up if I sell it. Then I don't have any. And with the money I got, I can't afford anymore. My wages won't allow me to take a step up, no matter how small it is.

So it's kind of a catch 22. Land goes up, housing goes up, wages remain the same. How is that economical growth that is healthy?

For many people in Montana, the last raise they got was when the Fed Gov changed the Minimum wage law.

[mattman3seven]

Originally Posted by Zeeburt

Yes, I understand. Some people are content with a lower standard of living and a simpler life. However, those people should accept the fact that they will be unable to afford what they want, as insisting on a low standard of living is also insisting on not keeping pace with economic growth. Life is competitive... if others progress and make and produce more and you choose not to, then you have to accept the consequences. Legislating failure to grow is not fair to those who want to earn more and live better, so even if you find a group of people who want to do and have less, they have no right to hold back everyone else. There is, fortunately, a solution. Take, for example, what the Amish do in PA.... they own a large area of land and live how they choose on it, isolating themselves from the outside world. If you can find enough people who want things to remain simple, why not get them together and buy a remote undeveloped area and keep it that way?

You have your way of seeing things, and I have mine. So be it I guess. It's not about isolating yourself, it's about not being in a developed area. Some people don't like the hustle and bustle of the city life. That doesn't mean you have a lower standard of living does it? I sure don't see it that way. I plan on prospering in MT, waaaaaay more than I ever could in TX. I don't understand your way of thinking; afford what you want? Some people are not all about luxury. Lot's of folks do not care if the have a nicer car than the person next door. They're just happy to have a car period. My family has been "affording" what we want here in TX and trying to keep up with the Jones', but that TO ME is not the way to live.

That's all I'm trying to say about living the simple life. Less traffic, less people, more space. That doesn't mean you can't live a better life just because you can't afford a half million dollar home and two $50000 cars. IMO of course.