St Louis vs Kansas City (St. Louis, Springfield: schools, gated, income)

[myrab]

Originally Posted by kcmo

...You are right; few cities have suburbs like JoCO where the roads are plentiful, straight, flat and wide as hell with massive building setbacks. ...

With speed limits of 25 mph and a speed trap every other block. Sorry, but it's true.

[myrab]

What a great (and spirited ) thread. Thank you to everyone who posted in it.

Can I please get input on which city is better for those in the IT field?

It seems like there are lots of established companies and start-ups in the Johnson County area of KC that need IT people--even now. Does there seem to be a decent IT market in St Louis? (Aside from the fact that the whole country is in a jobs crisis that is.)

Thx.

[skrazzle]

Originally Posted by stlouisredbirds

I live in Overland Park, Kansas, which is a suburb of Kansas City. Kansas City is decent for raising kids, and its.... economically stable. There is no doubt in my mind however, that St. Louis, Missouri is a better city. (I also plan to move there). My Uncle, and aunt live in Chesterfield, Missouri, a suburb of St. Louis, and loves it. They are both doctors, and they both work in the city though they are about 25 minutes out. What schools is she considering? In Kansas City there would be UMKC, and University of Kansas - Edwards Campus. In St. Louis there would be Washington University, and SLU if they have the program. Don't really have time to go over it, but I will tell you now that St. Louis is the better city with far more to do, far more things to see, and with far more possibilities residentially, with jobs, and with public schooling.

Overland Park, which is about 45 minutes from KC does have a great school system. Blue Valley, and Shawnee Mission are the two districts. Also I would check into Olathe, Kansas (Also 45 or so). But then again... Chesterfield, Clayton, and St. Charles do as well, and they are 25 minutes away from the DT.

i gotta know how slow you drive? OP is 20 mins from KC...

Driving Directions from Kansas City, MO to Overland Park, KS

[skrazzle]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

St. Louis (and the inner suburbs) are also more mature and established with much higher density levels compared with Kansas City. Kansas City includes a ridiculous number of counties in the entire metro area considering its population is far less than St. Louis. I also can't help but laugh when the city limits of Kansas City, MO span three separate counties (Jackson, Clay, and Platte).

Its population is more then STL. It's metro population is less, but not by tons when you consider how huge our metro is. Many areas that are part of the Metro aren't even counted... i'd say STL metro has 400k more people then 800k, but this is just a guess.

KC has bad sprawl tho... tons of it... Downtown KC and its urban core of midtown, plaza area, etc... is much more dense then STL. Downtown STL has around 11k people, KC downtown has over 16k...

[skrazzle]

Originally Posted by aragx6

What Kansas City lacks that St. Louis has are livable and interesting neighborhoods in the city outside of the downtown core. St. Louis is a city of neighborhoods and they are distinct and have a vibrancy that is lacking in Kansas City's residential areas. Even KC's residential neighborhoods are car oriented, and there's not very much within walking distance to most of the nice areas with old homes and families.

You are wrong.

Hyde Park, Union Hill, Brookside, Waldo, Valentine, Westport etc.... there are tons of cute neighborhoods with great architecture that are walkable.

The burbs aren't walkable at all, but that is the same with STL burbs... and most burbs anywhere..

[skrazzle]

Originally Posted by northbound74

Never been to Kansas City much, have you? There's a whole lot more to us than the Sports Complex, Plaza, and Johnson County, Kansas by the way.
The Country Club Plaza might be the most densely populated part of the city. If that area is not interesting and livable enough, nothing is.
You just described every neighborhood from slightly south of Crown Center, all the way down to Waldo. That's a sizable chunk of real estate. Brookside, West Plaza, Westport... there's many more names in there that I can't think of right away. Very walkable, with shopping districts in every area. Each area has it's own feel to it.
You also described North Kansas City, my favorite KC suburb, just across the Missouri river from downtown.

Oh forgot Parkville too...

[Brickmama]

Population density in STL is 5500 while KC's is about 1900. There is no comparison in density.

[WiseOwlSaysHoot]

Population density in STL is 5500 while KC's is about 1900. There is no comparison in density.

KC's density numbers are skewed due to the vast areas of emplty land that were annexed far north of the city around the airport.

STL is still more dense than KC, but if you look at just the urban cores the city, the densities aren't as drastically different.

Originally Posted by aragx6

First of all I've been to KC more times than can count and in that area especially, but you kind of proved my point. No oe in KC seems to be able to name neighborhoods, leading outsiders to believe they have few distinctions. They're fine areas, I'd live there in a heartbeat (I really enjoy Brookside), but that's not what I was really saying.

Here's the best example of looking at it from the angle of someone who truly wants to love car less. From my favorite Web site walkscore.com

"The top 4 neighborhoods in Kansas City are Walkers' Paradises. 14% of Kansas City residents have a Walk Score of 70 or above. 38% have a Walk Score of at least 50—and 62% live in Car-Dependent neighborhoods."
Kansas City's Most Walkable Neighborhoods - Walk Score Neighborhood Rankings

62% of KC neighborhoods are car dependent!

edit:: Again I want to reiterate that I really like Kansas City and I don't want to fight about it, because I think it's a great town. My point, and I think it was muddled in my last post, is that St. Louis is made up of a lot of interesting and distinct neighborhoods in a way that Kansas City isn't and, as a rule, I think more of Kansas City's neighborhoods are car dependent than St. Louis'.

Yes, large parts of KC aren't very walkable. Like I mentioned before, there is a large area of land in KC that is not truly part of the city. But if you want to compare walk scores, how about the fact that KC has 4 neighborhoods (out of 138 in the nation) that are considered a Walker's Paradise - including one in the top 10 - while St. Louis has zero.

[skrazzle]

Originally Posted by WiseOwlSaysHoot

KC's density numbers are skewed due to the vast areas of emplty land that were annexed far north of the city around the airport.

STL is still more dense than KC, but if you look at just the urban cores the city, the densities aren't as drastically different.




Yes, large parts of KC aren't very walkable. Like I mentioned before, there is a large area of land in KC that is not truly part of the city. But if you want to compare walk scores, how about the fact that KC has 4 neighborhoods (out of 138 in the nation) that are considered a Walker's Paradise - including one in the top 10 - while St. Louis has zero.

Excellent point on Walker's Paradise, I added the link for anyone interested

Walkers' Paradises - America's Most Walkable Neighborhoods

[STLCardsBlues1989]

How are you defining walkable? Is Soulard walkable? Lots of people walk around Soulard during Mardi Gras.

Honestly, to me, that list doesn't really mean anything.

And walkable doesn't mean good. It just means walkable.