St Louis vs Kansas City (St. Louis, Overland: home builders, unemployment rate, buy)
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A lot of KC's attractions are downtown/midtown/Plaza, but some of the burbs have attractions as well. Independence has an arena and numerous historical attractions as do several other suburbs, Worlds of Fun is up north, and so on..... Even the sports complex is sort of in a suburban style area, near Independence.
It's kind of impressive that KC has many of it's attractions centrally located considering how suburb-oriented it is.
I wouldn't base quality of life on several visits. Kansas City isn't completely my cup of tea, but quality of life is extremely high for those who want to live in that general part of the country.
It just depends on what the individual finds valuable in terms of location within the metro (urban vs suburban vs rural) etc. I prefer living in smaller metros with easy access to rural areas and trails so I don't prefer larger metros and needing to drive much more. KC is a very car oriented city, quite similar to most in the Sunbelt and that gets very old. I prefer having many things within easy waking distance or much shorter driving distances. Cost of living is important, but many states in the Midwest and Plains have lower cost of living but a high level of taxation. Johnson County, KS is a high tax area, the highest in the Great Plains region.
I've lived my entire life in Salt Lake City, Utah, and then I move to Kansas City, just recently (Dec. 5, 2012), because of a new job for my hub, with the intention of moving on in 3-4 years. I'd never once considered living here before and never paid it much attention. So, I have an outsider's perspective of Kansas City, and nothing invested in it, except for a house.
What surprises me is how Salt Lake (a smaller city) buries Kansas City in some areas. You'd think Kansas City would have a busier, more vibrant downtown any time of day, being a larger city, with a much larger and more interesting skyline but the Salt Lake downtown is much more active and busy and seems to have a lot more to do. KC's downtown is practically dead at all hours. This surprised both my husband and I.
The Salt Lake airport is superior, by far. If you don't believe me, go fly into it.
The movie theaters in Salt Lake are superior, by far. Go check out the Larry H. Miller Megaplexes when you're in Salt Lake. I'm really missing them right now. Everything, all the way down to the sound quality and pictures in the theaters are superior.
The Mexican food is by far superior in Salt Lake, and some of the best anywhere. So far I don't think KC knows how to do smothered. I may have to get really good at making Mexican food.
And if you want to compare scenery and recreational opportunities right next door, Salt Lake has it beat by thousands of feet. When people go on vacation, they go to Salt Lake/Park City. In fact, my husband's boss is on vacation right now in Salt Lake, going skiing.
However, I've always thought Kansas City has one of the nicest skylines in the US and its impressive no matter where you look at it. Kansas City people are surprising in their friendliness. I like the architecture. I like that it has bridges (something Salt Lake doesn't have). So far my favorite things about this place, that are exclusive to this place are Livestrong Sporting Park and the Midland Theatre by AMC. And it's not as flat as people in the West are led to believe. It has hills. Salt Lake is a smooth-sided bowl. KC has music and US history in its bones and reputation that Salt Lake only wishes it had. I love that it has a lot to do with Jazz. And they don't seem to have the inferiority complex about their city that Salt Lake Citians have. They don't have to prove they're cool. They just are. Maybe they have an inferiority complex compared to other cities, I don't know, but not compared to Salt Lake.
The suburbs here are nice, albeit much like Salt Lake's, which means bland. Basically, wherever you go in the US, suburbs tend to be bland. KC's are just hillier than Salt Lake, which makes them more interesting than Salt Lake's. They're also more foresty and green. The area we live in isn't flat, and is really pretty. We live in the north of Kansas City. Not the city or North Kansas City, but in the north of Kansas City. That's so confusing. We live in the new neighborhoods in Clay County, nearer the airport, near Staley High School. Very nice. Some rich areas out here.
Salt Lake also buries Kansas City in that it has a great light rail system and they're continuing to expand on it. I think it's pretty sad that KC doesn't have any light rail at all for the size of the city.
In several ways Salt Lake is more progressive than Kansas City, which, to me, is surprising, and its downtown, street level, more beautiful, but where Salt Lake feels sterile, Kansas City has charm and history and old Jazz and coolness in its bones. I like it here. I like it better than Salt Lake. It just really lacks in some inexcusable areas.
I have not been to St. Louis, but will be going there in March to see Muse, so I'll let you know then my observations and comparisons, but right now, I can tell you, from pictures alone over the years I have never considered St. Louis' skyline much of anything. It seems sparse and not dense in buildings, and it has the arch. Woopty doo. Salt Lake has the Wasatch Mountains. It seems like something St. Louisians cling to to try to make their city seem cooler, since it's referenced so much. It's just an arch. It doesn't make a skyline. But I haven't seen the skyline in person, or anything else. I'm just saying, I've always thought KC's was superior, by far, and looks like how a major city's skyline should look. Louisville seems to have a better skyline than St. Louis. I've always liked Louisville's, too. (I know Louisville is in Kentucky).
I'll let you know my observations and comparisons when I go in March. I know my brother really likes St. Louis, but I don't know how much time, if any, that he spent in KC.
Downtown comes to life when there is stuff going on. Summertime is busier than December.
KC has a ton of Mexican places. Keep digging, and you might find something you like. It took us a while to find what we liked.
AMC theaters were pretty top-notch when I lived there. Perhaps they've slipped.
KC may seem to not have inferiority issues, but there is a very large portion of the population that's too apathetic towards their own city to care.
I've lived my entire life in Salt Lake City, Utah, and then I move to Kansas City, just recently (Dec. 5, 2012), because of a new job for my hub, with the intention of moving on in 3-4 years. I'd never once considered living here before and never paid it much attention. So, I have an outsider's perspective of Kansas City, and nothing invested in it, except for a house.
What surprises me is how Salt Lake (a smaller city) buries Kansas City in some areas. You'd think Kansas City would have a busier, more vibrant downtown any time of day, being a larger city, with a much larger and more interesting skyline but the Salt Lake downtown is much more active and busy and seems to have a lot more to do. KC's downtown is practically dead at all hours. This surprised both my husband and I.
The Salt Lake airport is superior, by far. If you don't believe me, go fly into it.
The movie theaters in Salt Lake are superior, by far. Go check out the Larry H. Miller Megaplexes when you're in Salt Lake. I'm really missing them right now. Everything, all the way down to the sound quality and pictures in the theaters are superior.
The Mexican food is by far superior in Salt Lake, and some of the best anywhere. So far I don't think KC knows how to do smothered. I may have to get really good at making Mexican food.
And if you want to compare scenery and recreational opportunities right next door, Salt Lake has it beat by thousands of feet. When people go on vacation, they go to Salt Lake/Park City. In fact, my husband's boss is on vacation right now in Salt Lake, going skiing.
However, I've always thought Kansas City has one of the nicest skylines in the US and its impressive no matter where you look at it. Kansas City people are surprising in their friendliness. I like the architecture. I like that it has bridges (something Salt Lake doesn't have). So far my favorite things about this place, that are exclusive to this place are Livestrong Sporting Park and the Midland Theatre by AMC. And it's not as flat as people in the West are led to believe. It has hills. Salt Lake is a smooth-sided bowl. KC has music and US history in its bones and reputation that Salt Lake only wishes it had. I love that it has a lot to do with Jazz. And they don't seem to have the inferiority complex about their city that Salt Lake Citians have. They don't have to prove they're cool. They just are. Maybe they have an inferiority complex compared to other cities, I don't know, but not compared to Salt Lake.
The suburbs here are nice, albeit much like Salt Lake's, which means bland. Basically, wherever you go in the US, suburbs tend to be bland. KC's are just hillier than Salt Lake, which makes them more interesting than Salt Lake's. They're also more foresty and green. The area we live in isn't flat, and is really pretty. We live in the north of Kansas City. Not the city or North Kansas City, but in the north of Kansas City. That's so confusing. We live in the new neighborhoods in Clay County, nearer the airport, near Staley High School. Very nice. Some rich areas out here.
Salt Lake also buries Kansas City in that it has a great light rail system and they're continuing to expand on it. I think it's pretty sad that KC doesn't have any light rail at all for the size of the city.
In several ways Salt Lake is more progressive than Kansas City, which, to me, is surprising, and its downtown, street level, more beautiful, but where Salt Lake feels sterile, Kansas City has charm and history and old Jazz and coolness in its bones. I like it here. I like it better than Salt Lake. It just really lacks in some inexcusable areas.
I have not been to St. Louis, but will be going there in March to see Muse, so I'll let you know then my observations and comparisons, but right now, I can tell you, from pictures alone over the years I have never considered St. Louis' skyline much of anything. It seems sparse and not dense in buildings, and it has the arch. Woopty doo. Salt Lake has the Wasatch Mountains. It seems like something St. Louisians cling to to try to make their city seem cooler, since it's referenced so much. It's just an arch. It doesn't make a skyline. But I haven't seen the skyline in person, or anything else. I'm just saying, I've always thought KC's was superior, by far, and looks like how a major city's skyline should look. Louisville seems to have a better skyline than St. Louis. I've always liked Louisville's, too. (I know Louisville is in Kentucky).
I'll let you know my observations and comparisons when I go in March. I know my brother really likes St. Louis, but I don't know how much time, if any, that he spent in KC.
First of all. We don't give a dam about the arch. We understand it does nothing to the skyline of St.Louis. Second of all St.Louis put a skyscraper cap on the city so now we have 3 downtowns scattered through the metro area: St.Louis downtown, Clayton (suburb) and westport (in a suburb). Second of all, there is more to St.Louis then the arch. Does Salt Lake City have one of the largest urban parks in the nation? No. Does Salt Lake City have a tons of historic districts filled with old architecture? No. Does Salt Lake City have a diverse population? Last i checked there are no black people in Salt Lake City and its almost entirely white trash there. We have tons of places outside of the arch that are interesting and quite frankly, i don't know anyone in st.Louis who thinks that the arch is their only title to fame. We have annheisur Busch, the cardinals, one of the largest urban parks, the Ozarks, the Mississippi river, Cahokia mounds and have been to home to many jazz and blues writers as well home to one of the most prestigious universities in the country. All i can think that salt lake city has is the Mormon church, and you can't even enter it !
I've lived my entire life in Salt Lake City, Utah, and then I move to Kansas City, just recently (Dec. 5, 2012), because of a new job for my hub, with the intention of moving on in 3-4 years. I'd never once considered living here before and never paid it much attention. So, I have an outsider's perspective of Kansas City, and nothing invested in it, except for a house.
What surprises me is how Salt Lake (a smaller city) buries Kansas City in some areas. You'd think Kansas City would have a busier, more vibrant downtown any time of day, being a larger city, with a much larger and more interesting skyline but the Salt Lake downtown is much more active and busy and seems to have a lot more to do. KC's downtown is practically dead at all hours. This surprised both my husband and I.
The Salt Lake airport is superior, by far. If you don't believe me, go fly into it.
The movie theaters in Salt Lake are superior, by far. Go check out the Larry H. Miller Megaplexes when you're in Salt Lake. I'm really missing them right now. Everything, all the way down to the sound quality and pictures in the theaters are superior.
The Mexican food is by far superior in Salt Lake, and some of the best anywhere. So far I don't think KC knows how to do smothered. I may have to get really good at making Mexican food.
And if you want to compare scenery and recreational opportunities right next door, Salt Lake has it beat by thousands of feet. When people go on vacation, they go to Salt Lake/Park City. In fact, my husband's boss is on vacation right now in Salt Lake, going skiing.
However, I've always thought Kansas City has one of the nicest skylines in the US and its impressive no matter where you look at it. Kansas City people are surprising in their friendliness. I like the architecture. I like that it has bridges (something Salt Lake doesn't have). So far my favorite things about this place, that are exclusive to this place are Livestrong Sporting Park and the Midland Theatre by AMC. And it's not as flat as people in the West are led to believe. It has hills. Salt Lake is a smooth-sided bowl. KC has music and US history in its bones and reputation that Salt Lake only wishes it had. I love that it has a lot to do with Jazz. And they don't seem to have the inferiority complex about their city that Salt Lake Citians have. They don't have to prove they're cool. They just are. Maybe they have an inferiority complex compared to other cities, I don't know, but not compared to Salt Lake.
The suburbs here are nice, albeit much like Salt Lake's, which means bland. Basically, wherever you go in the US, suburbs tend to be bland. KC's are just hillier than Salt Lake, which makes them more interesting than Salt Lake's. They're also more foresty and green. The area we live in isn't flat, and is really pretty. We live in the north of Kansas City. Not the city or North Kansas City, but in the north of Kansas City. That's so confusing. We live in the new neighborhoods in Clay County, nearer the airport, near Staley High School. Very nice. Some rich areas out here.
Salt Lake also buries Kansas City in that it has a great light rail system and they're continuing to expand on it. I think it's pretty sad that KC doesn't have any light rail at all for the size of the city.
In several ways Salt Lake is more progressive than Kansas City, which, to me, is surprising, and its downtown, street level, more beautiful, but where Salt Lake feels sterile, Kansas City has charm and history and old Jazz and coolness in its bones. I like it here. I like it better than Salt Lake. It just really lacks in some inexcusable areas.
I have not been to St. Louis, but will be going there in March to see Muse, so I'll let you know then my observations and comparisons, but right now, I can tell you, from pictures alone over the years I have never considered St. Louis' skyline much of anything. It seems sparse and not dense in buildings, and it has the arch. Woopty doo. Salt Lake has the Wasatch Mountains. It seems like something St. Louisians cling to to try to make their city seem cooler, since it's referenced so much. It's just an arch. It doesn't make a skyline. But I haven't seen the skyline in person, or anything else. I'm just saying, I've always thought KC's was superior, by far, and looks like how a major city's skyline should look. Louisville seems to have a better skyline than St. Louis. I've always liked Louisville's, too. (I know Louisville is in Kentucky).
I'll let you know my observations and comparisons when I go in March. I know my brother really likes St. Louis, but I don't know how much time, if any, that he spent in KC.
Actually, I like the St. Louis skyline - but it's a matter of personal taste. I think you will find there is much more here than meets the eye. Maybe when you stand below the arch, you will learn to appreciate it more. Please make note to visit some of our wonderful neighborhoods, including Cherokee where you will find a very nice hispanic population, and hopefully some wonderful Mexican food that you miss.
St. Louis and Kansas City are very different cities - which is great for our state. St. Louis is much older, and had a more east coast development. We have strong neighborhoods in our city, many with mom and pop commerical centers (Soulard, Centeral West End, Benton Park, Lafayette Square, and South Grand to name only a few); we were much more dense in our day, though we have gentrified and spread out much like our western peers; We don't have as much of a grid street pattern outside of the main part of the city, as our streets and roads were set up to get you from the suburbs to downtown, much like spokes of a wheel; as a port city, we had huge wharehouses that have now been converted into lofts for downtown living; we do have as many high rise buildings as KC, and a relatively dense downtown. We also have several other centers of business that are impressive in their own rights for a urban high rise environment, including Midtown, the Central West End, and Clayton (though technically outside of downtown).
I am glad each are different, and bring diversity to our state. I really wish we could appreciate the diversity, and stop trying to say one is better than the other when in reality it comes down to which type of city you prefer the best, the older eastern oriented or the new western oriented - and I don't think your preference over a type makes one better than the other, just like my civic pride doesn't make St. Louis better than KC - it just makes it where I prefer to live.
Last edited by STLCityMike; 12-27-2012 at 12:02 PM..
Reason: typo
These cities can divide families! We are from St. Louis and most of my family is in St. Louis, but my older brother and sister moved to KC years and years ago and never came back! I have visited them in KC many many times, and while it's a lovely city to visit, St. Louis is definitely my personal preference, but it's my home town so i'm biased.
You know nothing about Salt Lake City if you think it has no black people and is entirely white trash. Please. Salt Lake City has a surprisingly (to some) diverse population. And there are more Latin American people there than anywhere in Missouri, I'm sure. Thus, a plethora of very good Mexican restaurants. Mexican food is THE food there. You find it practically on every street corner. Salt Lake seems to have a plethora of good restaurants, in general, to population. People have even talked about that from out of state, that is surprisingly culinary. But if you must brag diversity as a St. Louisian I don't think you can brag. I've never seen any city more diverse than London! Want to talk diversity, go there first, then see if your city is as impressively diverse as you think. I doubt St. Louis compares when I don't think New York may even compare. And yes, I've been to New York.
Salt Lake has historical districts and old architecture mixed with a lot of modern. Most western cities are largely modern. To say it has none is ridiculous. Is it like, say, New York? No. But then that's one of the reasons I moved, isn't it?
Lol. I can't believe you're getting so worked up, especially when I spent the whole time talking about Kansas City and talking about its faults. I'll let you know what I think of St. Louis when I go, but one little comment and you get in a snit. No, I've never seen much in St. Louis' skyline, but seeing it with my own eyes will help.
To another poster:
There is stuff going on all the time in downtown Salt Lake, no matter the time of year. The city has worked very hard to make it so. It was their stated goal and has been their mantra for years. They want it to be THE center for entertainment, shopping and culture, and the residence for a lot of people. They wanted to bring people back downtown, out of the suburbs, and make it vibrant, so they've spent billions and years making it so. I now see how much their efforts are paying off when it outdoes a larger city, like KC.
Having the winter Olympics there gave it a boost, too, and they're going for them again in 2026. It was largely because of the winter Olys in 2002 that Salt Lake had the money (before the games) to build a light rail system and upgrade all their freeways, and, of course, build the Oly venues that still needed to be built. Has St. Louis or KC ever hosted an Olympics games? Will they ever? That's one claim to fame SLC has over St. Louis. Salt Lake, or rather, nearby Park City, also has the Sundance Film Festival, which is a big deal.
And if you must brag transportation, again, you ought to look at London! That place is amazing with their public transportation, especially their Tube system. There is no room to brag, anywhere in the US. Not even New York.
December is one of the best times in downtown Salt Lake and it's decorated beautifully, especially Temple Square and the surrounding areas. Downtown KC at Christmas, was depressing. Where were the lights? Other than in that Plaza area and that was still sterile. It's busy, busy, busy downtown Salt Lake right now, but there's a lot going on and often busy the rest of the year, too. Like I said, we were surprised at how Salt Lake is busier, more active than KC, even during work hours. It's just an observation from an outsider. And no, Salt Lake is not more bustling than say, Portland, or Seattle.
Salt Lake is an outdoors city and Salt Lake Citians are a hearty people. The first and only snowstorm this winter in KC and our kids get the day off from school, just because of a little blowing snow that didn't even cover the grass tops. It would take a lot more than that for Salt Lake schools to shut down. I lived there my entire life and I recall only once that we got a day off from school and it was when the snow was deep enough to come up to our doorsteps after walking up steps. It was a rare treat that we always hoped for every winter, but never saw again. If they closed down schools because of a blizzard or snow every time, they'd never go to school in the winter. Salt Lake Citians trudge through.
We also came here in September of 2011 and 2012, when it was nice and warm, and it was just as dead then. That was when we first got our impression. I thought the lack of things going on along the riverfront was sad, too, back then. That could've had something to do with having recently gone to Portland, Oregon, where the Willamette riverfront is an active and bustling place where people are jogging, biking, boating, hanging out.
We went to one of those The Night the Buzz Stole Xmas concerts a couple Fridays ago, which was a blast, and there were a few people around outside, but everywhere else was deserted. That was something going on. It's as if no one even lives down there. It feels deserted, like empty warehouses. So when are things going on down there that brings out the people and why do they stay away? They need to also stop chasing their businesses away, too. My hub's boss's wife works at the AMC HQ downtown and we hear they're leaving downtown and going to Overland Park. Better taxes. What are they going to do with that building with the big AMC on it? Salt Lake is bringing new businesses downtown all the time. They are dead set on making it an attractive place for people to live and businesses to set up shop.
You mentioned apathy in KCians. Maybe that has something to do with this all. But I like the laidback qualities of this city, too. Salt Lake seems tighter wound. I like the feel here. San Diego is a laidback city, with lots of beautiful beaches, and it still has a bustling downtown, though.
We will definitely be checking out other Mexican places, but I'm not holding out hope when all we've found so far is Mexican that is a lesser version of Salt Lake's Cafe Rio and a place that thinks chile con queso constitutes smothered. In Salt Lake smothered is smothered wherever you go, as is chile verde. But I know we've barely begun and I look forward to seeing what KC has.
I don't know if AMC theaters have slipped, but they don't compare to Megaplex theaters and I don't see how they ever could've. The Megaplexes have taken movie-going to a whole new level. AMC theaters are what Salt Lake had before the Megaplexes came along...maybe even before that. I've seen two movies now in two of the AMC theaters (I was thinking maybe one would be better than the other), and they just don't compare, from the website to reserving seats (they have a special "reserved seat" theater and the rest aren't). The theaters are nicer in SLC. And are KCians allergic to loud noises? So far the sound is way too quiet, not that dynamic, and the images are kind of dark. I heard they went with the wrong sound system, in general, and are working to update the theaters, but so far I haven't been impressed. Salt Lake Citians seem to like their movies a lot more, too. I heard that KC has a lot of movie theaters, but there are more theaters in Salt Lake than there is in KC, a bigger city, and seem much more attended (kind of like the downtown).
Don't get me wrong, there are things about Salt Lake City I can't stand, too. These are just the differences I've seen so far. Kansas City has its strengths, too, which I've also highlighted, and I love living here (for now). This city has its charm. I love the Jazz history. I love that in general it seems more conducive to creativity and music and just having a good time. I love the architecture. I love the skyline and just despair of the deserted downtown. Light rail would be a nice option for getting around. Salt Lake City loves theirs. I like the differences. I enjoy experiencing new things. I love feeling like I'm constantly on vacation because this whole place and part of the US is new to me.
As for the debate between the two cities in this thread, like I said, I just knew them both through just pictures once and that's the only comparison I could make. I've always thought it was funny how two cities in the same state could compete with each other, even hate each other, like Los Angeles and San Francisco. Salt Lake doesn't have that problem, being THE big city in the state. I think the only people who are so determined to cling to their own city as "the best" are just people who aren't able to get out and around much, who can't travel to the other city in their very own state very often and claim it as their own, as well. I look forward to seeing St. Louis for the first time (and many other cities on this half of the US) and will gladly give my comparisons and views thereafter.
You know nothing about Salt Lake City if you think it has no black people and is entirely white trash. Please. Salt Lake City has a surprisingly (to some) diverse population. And there are more Latin American people there than anywhere in Missouri, I'm sure. Thus, a plethora of very good Mexican restaurants. Mexican food is THE food there. You find it practically on every street corner. Salt Lake seems to have a plethora of good restaurants, in general, to population. People have even talked about that from out of state, that is surprisingly culinary. But if you must brag diversity as a St. Louisian I don't think you can brag. I've never seen any city more diverse than London! Want to talk diversity, go there first, then see if your city is as impressively diverse as you think. I doubt St. Louis compares when I don't think New York may even compare. And yes, I've been to New York.
Salt Lake has historical districts and old architecture mixed with a lot of modern. Most western cities are largely modern. To say it has none is ridiculous. Is it like, say, New York? No. But then that's one of the reasons I moved, isn't it?
Lol. I can't believe you're getting so worked up, especially when I spent the whole time talking about Kansas City and talking about its faults. I'll let you know what I think of St. Louis when I go, but one little comment and you get in a snit. No, I've never seen much in St. Louis' skyline, but seeing it with my own eyes will help.
To another poster:
There is stuff going on all the time in downtown Salt Lake, no matter the time of year. The city has worked very hard to make it so. It was their stated goal and has been their mantra for years. They want it to be THE center for entertainment, shopping and culture, and the residence for a lot of people. They wanted to bring people back downtown, out of the suburbs, and make it vibrant, so they've spent billions and years making it so. I now see how much their efforts are paying off when it outdoes a larger city, like KC.
Having the winter Olympics there gave it a boost, too, and they're going for them again in 2026. It was largely because of the winter Olys in 2002 that Salt Lake had the money (before the games) to build a light rail system and upgrade all their freeways, and, of course, build the Oly venues that still needed to be built. Has St. Louis or KC ever hosted an Olympics games? Will they ever? That's one claim to fame SLC has over St. Louis. Salt Lake, or rather, nearby Park City, also has the Sundance Film Festival, which is a big deal.
And if you must brag transportation, again, you ought to look at London! That place is amazing with their public transportation, especially their Tube system. There is no room to brag, anywhere in the US. Not even New York.
December is one of the best times in downtown Salt Lake and it's decorated beautifully, especially Temple Square and the surrounding areas. Downtown KC at Christmas, was depressing. Where were the lights? Other than in that Plaza area and that was still sterile. It's busy, busy, busy downtown Salt Lake right now, but there's a lot going on and often busy the rest of the year, too. Like I said, we were surprised at how Salt Lake is busier, more active than KC, even during work hours. It's just an observation from an outsider. And no, Salt Lake is not more bustling than say, Portland, or Seattle.
Salt Lake is an outdoors city and Salt Lake Citians are a hearty people. The first and only snowstorm this winter in KC and our kids get the day off from school, just because of a little blowing snow that didn't even cover the grass tops. It would take a lot more than that for Salt Lake schools to shut down. I lived there my entire life and I recall only once that we got a day off from school and it was when the snow was deep enough to come up to our doorsteps after walking up steps. It was a rare treat that we always hoped for every winter, but never saw again. If they closed down schools because of a blizzard or snow every time, they'd never go to school in the winter. Salt Lake Citians trudge through.
We also came here in September of 2011 and 2012, when it was nice and warm, and it was just as dead then. That was when we first got our impression. I thought the lack of things going on along the riverfront was sad, too, back then. That could've had something to do with having recently gone to Portland, Oregon, where the Willamette riverfront is an active and bustling place where people are jogging, biking, boating, hanging out.
We went to one of those The Night the Buzz Stole Xmas concerts a couple Fridays ago, which was a blast, and there were a few people around outside, but everywhere else was deserted. That was something going on. It's as if no one even lives down there. It feels deserted, like empty warehouses. So when are things going on down there that brings out the people and why do they stay away? They need to also stop chasing their businesses away, too. My hub's boss's wife works at the AMC HQ downtown and we hear they're leaving downtown and going to Overland Park. Better taxes. What are they going to do with that building with the big AMC on it? Salt Lake is bringing new businesses downtown all the time. They are dead set on making it an attractive place for people to live and businesses to set up shop.
You mentioned apathy in KCians. Maybe that has something to do with this all. But I like the laidback qualities of this city, too. Salt Lake seems tighter wound. I like the feel here. San Diego is a laidback city, with lots of beautiful beaches, and it still has a bustling downtown, though.
We will definitely be checking out other Mexican places, but I'm not holding out hope when all we've found so far is Mexican that is a lesser version of Salt Lake's Cafe Rio and a place that thinks chile con queso constitutes smothered. In Salt Lake smothered is smothered wherever you go, as is chile verde. But I know we've barely begun and I look forward to seeing what KC has.
I don't know if AMC theaters have slipped, but they don't compare to Megaplex theaters and I don't see how they ever could've. The Megaplexes have taken movie-going to a whole new level. AMC theaters are what Salt Lake had before the Megaplexes came along...maybe even before that. I've seen two movies now in two of the AMC theaters (I was thinking maybe one would be better than the other), and they just don't compare, from the website to reserving seats (they have a special "reserved seat" theater and the rest aren't). The theaters are nicer in SLC. And are KCians allergic to loud noises? So far the sound is way too quiet, not that dynamic, and the images are kind of dark. I heard they went with the wrong sound system, in general, and are working to update the theaters, but so far I haven't been impressed. Salt Lake Citians seem to like their movies a lot more, too. I heard that KC has a lot of movie theaters, but there are more theaters in Salt Lake than there is in KC, a bigger city, and seem much more attended (kind of like the downtown).
Don't get me wrong, there are things about Salt Lake City I can't stand, too. These are just the differences I've seen so far. Kansas City has its strengths, too, which I've also highlighted, and I love living here (for now). This city has its charm. I love the Jazz history. I love that in general it seems more conducive to creativity and music and just having a good time. I love the architecture. I love the skyline and just despair of the deserted downtown. Light rail would be a nice option for getting around. Salt Lake City loves theirs. I like the differences. I enjoy experiencing new things. I love feeling like I'm constantly on vacation because this whole place and part of the US is new to me.
As for the debate between the two cities in this thread, like I said, I just knew them both through just pictures once and that's the only comparison I could make. I've always thought it was funny how two cities in the same state could compete with each other, even hate each other, like Los Angeles and San Francisco. Salt Lake doesn't have that problem, being THE big city in the state. I think the only people who are so determined to cling to their own city as "the best" are just people who aren't able to get out and around much, who can't travel to the other city in their very own state very often and claim it as their own, as well. I look forward to seeing St. Louis for the first time (and many other cities on this half of the US) and will gladly give my comparisons and views thereafter.
I wasn't trying to be argumentative. We spent 6 years in Kansas City, moved away and no longer have strong opinions about the place one way or the other. Just trying to assure you that it's not that bad.
I certainly wasn't trying to argue KC's downtown is some great thing, just that there are times when it can be quite lively. The Plaza is the place to be in December. How any of this compares to Salt Lake City, I haven't a clue. No doubt it's downtown is livelier than Kansas City's. Wouldn't take much, really.
For those of us who remember downtown ten years ago, the improvements have been downright dramatic.
Kansas City is very suburb-oriented. 75% of the metro's residents never go downtown. They loathe it.
The metro is also very divided between the two states. Missouri has historically been the larger, more ambitious side (skyline, airport, sports teams, museums, amusement park), while Kansas built suburbs. More recently, Kansas has become very aggressive in attracting business and entertainment venues. Many now have the attitude that if it's not in Kansas, it's not worth going to. Therefore, downtown is ignored by a large, wealthy portion of the population.
By the way, KC isn't "chasing away" business. It is a city in Missouri literally competing with the entire state of Kansas. Not just Overland Park or Olathe, but the ENTIRE state because the state puts an enormous amount of resources into Johnson County. Peruse the KC forums and you will find many lively discussions on this topic.
No, Kansas City is not outdoorsy. Not at all. One of my biggest complaints when I lived there. There are several trails around the area, however.
Not sure what the deal is with the riverfront. All I can say about that is don't ever expect to improve. I'm pretty sure they've talked about doing something with it since the turn of the last century... It's kind of like light rail. You know, when pigs fly or something to that effect.
They average 20 inches of snow a year, so any snow event is kind of a big deal. They take it a lot better than my home state of Arkansas, where they shut down everything over flurries. At least in KC they are equipped to clear snow from the roads.
Here's downtown Salt Lake, present day. It's still a couple years old, at least, because you can see all the cranes still working on City Creek Center, in the center there, if you look closely.
Why do they loathe the downtown? Most cities are largely suburban, but they don't loathe their downtowns. Salt Lake is largely suburban. Salt Lake City itself has 184,600 people. The Salt Lake Area has 1,029,655. There's another million+ within 45 minutes of driving, both directions along the Wasatch Front. And you can see that there is a lot of activity downtown.
To the left of that pic, we have these, the Wasatch Mountains:
This is a very old pic of Salt Lake. Very old. There are a lot of new skyscrapers that have gone up since then.
To the right is the Oquirrh Mountains and the Great Salt Lake.
What do they do, then, if they avoid downtown? Just sit in their houses? Eat at the plain strip malls and watch dim movies? They're that afraid of exercise and the outdoors? Because it takes a little love of the outdoors just to walk down a downtown street. We've already done that downtown and wish others would love it, too.
Oh well. I don't want to live in Salt Lake, but I do want to live in a place that cares about its core and identity. We're here partly for the experience my hub will get and also because KC is a stepping stone to a lot of places we haven't seen. We've largely seen the West. So, really, I view it as a launching pad, plus a chance to just experience somewhere new. Plus, we have a pretty sweet house (prices are cheaper here than in Salt Lake). But, unfortunately, I wouldn't want to end up here permanently, especially if they're just letting their downtown decay. I don't want to end up in Salt Lake permanently, either. We're thinking of somewhere more like San Jose, California. No, San Jose doesn't even have the skyline of Salt Lake, but it has the outdoorsiness, I think, the creativity, and the money, and isn't far from a very cool city. One of my favs.
KC needs to wake up and recognize what it has. It's a beautiful place with a lot of charm in its walls.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canyonvue
I've lived my entire life in Salt Lake City, Utah, and then I move to Kansas City, just recently (Dec. 5, 2012), because of a new job for my hub, with the intention of moving on in 3-4 years. I'd never once considered living here before and never paid it much attention. So, I have an outsider's perspective of Kansas City, and nothing invested in it, except for a house.
What surprises me is how Salt Lake (a smaller city) buries Kansas City in some areas. You'd think Kansas City would have a busier, more vibrant downtown any time of day, being a larger city, with a much larger and more interesting skyline but the Salt Lake downtown is much more active and busy and seems to have a lot more to do. KC's downtown is practically dead at all hours. This surprised both my husband and I.
The Salt Lake airport is superior, by far. If you don't believe me, go fly into it.
The movie theaters in Salt Lake are superior, by far. Go check out the Larry H. Miller Megaplexes when you're in Salt Lake. I'm really missing them right now. Everything, all the way down to the sound quality and pictures in the theaters are superior.
The Mexican food is by far superior in Salt Lake, and some of the best anywhere. So far I don't think KC knows how to do smothered. I may have to get really good at making Mexican food.
And if you want to compare scenery and recreational opportunities right next door, Salt Lake has it beat by thousands of feet. When people go on vacation, they go to Salt Lake/Park City. In fact, my husband's boss is on vacation right now in Salt Lake, going skiing.
However, I've always thought Kansas City has one of the nicest skylines in the US and its impressive no matter where you look at it. Kansas City people are surprising in their friendliness. I like the architecture. I like that it has bridges (something Salt Lake doesn't have). So far my favorite things about this place, that are exclusive to this place are Livestrong Sporting Park and the Midland Theatre by AMC. And it's not as flat as people in the West are led to believe. It has hills. Salt Lake is a smooth-sided bowl. KC has music and US history in its bones and reputation that Salt Lake only wishes it had. I love that it has a lot to do with Jazz. And they don't seem to have the inferiority complex about their city that Salt Lake Citians have. They don't have to prove they're cool. They just are. Maybe they have an inferiority complex compared to other cities, I don't know, but not compared to Salt Lake.
The suburbs here are nice, albeit much like Salt Lake's, which means bland. Basically, wherever you go in the US, suburbs tend to be bland. KC's are just hillier than Salt Lake, which makes them more interesting than Salt Lake's. They're also more foresty and green. The area we live in isn't flat, and is really pretty. We live in the north of Kansas City. Not the city or North Kansas City, but in the north of Kansas City. That's so confusing. We live in the new neighborhoods in Clay County, nearer the airport, near Staley High School. Very nice. Some rich areas out here.
Salt Lake also buries Kansas City in that it has a great light rail system and they're continuing to expand on it. I think it's pretty sad that KC doesn't have any light rail at all for the size of the city.
In several ways Salt Lake is more progressive than Kansas City, which, to me, is surprising, and its downtown, street level, more beautiful, but where Salt Lake feels sterile, Kansas City has charm and history and old Jazz and coolness in its bones. I like it here. I like it better than Salt Lake. It just really lacks in some inexcusable areas.
I have not been to St. Louis, but will be going there in March to see Muse, so I'll let you know then my observations and comparisons, but right now, I can tell you, from pictures alone over the years I have never considered St. Louis' skyline much of anything. It seems sparse and not dense in buildings, and it has the arch. Woopty doo. Salt Lake has the Wasatch Mountains. It seems like something St. Louisians cling to to try to make their city seem cooler, since it's referenced so much. It's just an arch. It doesn't make a skyline. But I haven't seen the skyline in person, or anything else. I'm just saying, I've always thought KC's was superior, by far, and looks like how a major city's skyline should look. Louisville seems to have a better skyline than St. Louis. I've always liked Louisville's, too. (I know Louisville is in Kentucky).
I'll let you know my observations and comparisons when I go in March. I know my brother really likes St. Louis, but I don't know how much time, if any, that he spent in KC.
St. Louis and Louisville are really nothing alike. Louisville is a Southern city in every way, shape, and form, STL and KC are the Midwest. The difference is night and day.
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Kansas City vs. St. Louis
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I have visited them in KC many many times, and while it's a lovely city to visit, St. Louis is definitely my personal preference, but it's my home town so i'm biased.
