Why is KC so much more gentle and gracious than St Louis? (St. Louis: how much, homes)

[MOKAN]

^Let's just say I'm proud of how Kansas City has been relatively gentle and gracious through all of this Michael Brown stuff. I didn't say I am super proud of Kansas City. It certainly has problems, but in my opinion it could be worse. What's gone and going on in St. Louis really puts things in perspective. I never claimed that the actions of a minority represent the majority. You read a lot that is not there. However, I am proud of our minority's relative gentleness and graciousness. And are you saying the "Knockout Game" victims weren't chosen at random? The police believe the Bosnian victim was random. And the business owners and people trampled (figuratively and perhaps literally) in the riots weren't random? There's a certain comfort in knowing that if you're not doing bad things that you aren't likely to be involved. City promoters use that rhetoric regularly, and it makes sense. Well, in St. Louis it just seems you're more likely to become a random victim, no matter how well-to-do you might be. St. Louis is a mess. The first step to improvement is admitting there's a problem. Otherwise, nothing will get better.

[Caesarstl]

Originally Posted by MOKAN

^Let's just say I'm proud of how Kansas City has been relatively gentle and gracious through all of this Michael Brown stuff. I didn't say I am super proud of Kansas City. It certainly has problems, but in my opinion it could be worse. What's gone and going on in St. Louis really puts things in perspective. I never claimed that the actions of a minority represent the majority. You read a lot that is not there. However, I am proud of our minority's relative gentleness and graciousness. And are you saying the "Knockout Game" victims weren't chosen at random? The police believe the Bosnian victim was random. And the business owners and people trampled (figuratively and perhaps literally) in the riots weren't random? There's a certain comfort in knowing that if you're not doing bad things that you aren't likely to be involved. City promoters use that rhetoric regularly, and it makes sense. Well, in St. Louis it just seems you're more likely to become a random victim, no matter how well-to-do you might be. St. Louis is a mess. The first step to improvement is admitting there's a problem. Otherwise, nothing will get better.

Ok, were you (just, not super ) proud of KC when those people were being randomly killed in the examples I gave? What was your perspective then? The tone of your posts in this "obvious thread" are clear, and you're also not very in touch with race relations in KC if gentleness and graciousness come to mind no matter how you want to spin it (relative...).

Am I saying knockout game victims weren't chosen at random? Uh, let me check, hmm, nope, never said that. By nature the knockout game is random, it also has happened in a lot of cities and wasn't started in St. Louis either so your point is? Is there an abnormally large number of K.O. game victims in STL? The Bosnian victim? I even directly mentioned him in my post, did you read it? The KC MSA has higher a violent crime rate and murder rate, are we going to pretend none of them are random (oops, already gave you some high profile examples...)???

O, I see, you said it seems like you're more likely to be a random victim in St. Louis... Translation: You have no idea whatsoever, you didn't look at any data, but you're just going to use this as your imaginary argument. Nice. Here's the truth for you, I agree that, "There's a certain comfort in knowing that if you're not doing bad things that you aren't likely to be involved," and you know what? The same thing is true in St. Louis! I read the St. Louis news almost every single day and follow the crime pretty carefully, and things like murders are almost always not random. Other crimes like robberies, more random in nature, continue to be almost universally down across the city. You have no evidence to support your claim (if you find a breakdown of this for regions/cities I'd be very interested in seeing in), it is hollow, and for all you know KC could be worse just like it is in the overall numbers I posted!

St. Louis, like KC, does have plenty of real problems that I and many clearly recognize and are generally more familiar with, your unsubstantiated claims or the OP's obsession with trying to bash St. Louis in any way he can aren't really needed.

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by MOKAN

I was going to go to St. Louis for a second time a few months ago for a leisure trip...

Have you really only been to StL once? If so, that is nowhere near enough time to really be able to discuss the city with any true knowledge of the area.

[MOKAN]

Originally Posted by Caesarstl

Ok, were you (just, not super ) proud of KC when those people were being randomly killed in the examples I gave? What was your perspective then? The tone of your posts in this "obvious thread" are clear, and you're also not very in touch with race relations in KC if gentleness and graciousness come to mind no matter how you want to spin it (relative...).

Am I saying knockout game victims weren't chosen at random? Uh, let me check, hmm, nope, never said that. By nature the knockout game is random, it also has happened in a lot of cities and wasn't started in St. Louis either so your point is? Is there an abnormally large number of K.O. game victims in STL? The Bosnian victim? I even directly mentioned him in my post, did you read it? The KC MSA has higher a violent crime rate and murder rate, are we going to pretend none of them are random (oops, already gave you some high profile examples...)???

O, I see, you said it seems like you're more likely to be a random victim in St. Louis... Translation: You have no idea whatsoever, you didn't look at any data, but you're just going to use this as your imaginary argument. Nice. Here's the truth for you, I agree that, "There's a certain comfort in knowing that if you're not doing bad things that you aren't likely to be involved," and you know what? The same thing is true in St. Louis! I read the St. Louis news almost every single day and follow the crime pretty carefully, and things like murders are almost always not random. Other crimes like robberies, more random in nature, continue to be almost universally down across the city. You have no evidence to support your claim (if you find a breakdown of this for regions/cities I'd be very interested in seeing in), it is hollow, and for all you know KC could be worse just like it is in the overall numbers I posted!

St. Louis, like KC, does have plenty of real problems that I and many clearly recognize and are generally more familiar with, your unsubstantiated claims or the OP's obsession with trying to bash St. Louis in any way he can aren't really needed.

You have the right to your opinions. Respect mine.

I don't care about the data that much in this regard. I know it's not that different, fluctuates for no apparent reason, and isn't necessarily indicative of how dangerous a city is or your chance of becoming a victim. I believe St. Louis is dangerous, based on what I've observed is going on. Period. You raised good points by mentioning the highway and Jewish Community Center shootings, but from what I've gathered I still feel St. Louis is more a mess and more dangerous and that a person is more likely to become a victim there. I could be wrong, who knows. Both cities are dangerous to some extent. But yes, I am proud of KC. We're in the same state as St. Louis, also have a large black community, etc., but we haven't really had any major issues because of the Michael Brown thing. Like I said, St. Louis is a mess (as are many cities, but it stands out in my mind), and one needs to acknowledge a problem before it can get better. Denial and minimization will get you no where. And this conversation is going nowhere.

Originally Posted by kcmo

Have you really only been to StL once? If so, that is nowhere near enough time to really be able to discuss the city with any true knowledge of the area.

I know enough to know what I've said. That's what matters. I'm not an expert on the city, but for having been there only once I am relatively very familiar for a variety of reasons.

[lovekcmo]

Originally Posted by Caesarstl

The US Census Bureau doesn't quite agree:

-2,054,473 (2013, as of July 1, estimate)
-2,009,342 (April 1st, 2010 Official)

If it makes you feel better St. Louis is estimated at 2,801,056, that's still almost 40% larger btw...

From the Census Bureau Official Site:
American FactFinder - Results

Don't let facts get in the way of your inferiority complex though...

Wikipedia KC metro has 2.34 million and 2.9 for St Louie.

[lovekcmo]

Originally Posted by s.davis

It's not. They are no different in terms of peacefulness or graciousness. Beauty is in they eye of the beholder, though, and the 2 towns do look quite a bit different, so you may very well feel, as I do, that KC is a better looking or more beautiful city. Lots of people feel the exact opposite. But in terms of people, they are both mid-western cities with very culturally midwestern populations. But they are fairly different in size. StL is about 1.5 times the size of KC.

About 100 years ago STL was 1.5 times larger than KC but not in the last 40 years.

[Floorist]

As someone who has lived and worked in both places. They both have slums and dangerous neighborhoods. They are just bigger in St Louis. St Louis overall, just seems dirtier than KC. And the smog is far worse in St Louis. Some days it's hard to breathe.

[SPonteKC]

Originally Posted by lovekcmo

About 100 years ago STL was 1.5 times larger than KC but not in the last 40 years.

StL's urbanized area (which is about the best available measure of "size of a city") is still about 1.4 times the size of KC. And it shows.

[bigbluestl]

Originally Posted by Floorist

As someone who has lived and worked in both places. They both have slums and dangerous neighborhoods. They are just bigger in St Louis. St Louis overall, just seems dirtier than KC. And the smog is far worse in St Louis. Some days it's hard to breathe.

True. Also parts of the city look like the aftermath of the Battle of Berlin with buildings totally gutted and falling apart.

[Floorist]

Somedays, traffic slows to a crawl because visibility from the smog is so low where the bridge crosses the river from St Louis Mo into Illinois