Public Schools???? (Minneapolis, St. Paul, Eden Prairie: new home, neighborhood, buying)

[sarahcakes]

I am very seriously considering a move to the TCs, can anyone give me some objective, honest, reviews of the public school system there. Which ones are the most recommended, what districts,etc. I'm looking for safe environment, good student:teacher ratios, you know the kind of things most parents want for their kids. My children will be elementary age.

Where I live now private schools are the only option... I'd like to get free from
such restraints.

Thanks in advance.

PS: YES I know how cold it can get there, we're ex-wisconsinites

[llratke]

If you like the Northern Suburbs, Elk River, St. Michael-Albertville, Rogers are great schools. Of course every school has it's troubles, but I deal with schools in my business, and the ones up here have wonderful teachers.

[uptown_urbanist]

I can't think of a single district in the Twin Cities that you'd have to avoid, although admittedly I don't know the ins and outs of all the suburban districts. Within city limits there are some schools that are better than others, so if you're interested in living in either the city of Minneapolis or St. Paul (both have some excellent public schools, by the way) I'd start by looking at individual schools, not district. That's presumably true in the other districts, too, but the extremes are probably more evident in the city (where you have some of both the top schools in the state as well as some of the worst).

I think the short answer is that you can start your search for a place to live based on other factors, and worry about the school specifics later. You're not going to have a problem finding excellent public schools for your kids in any part of the metro area.

[US-Traveller]

A good friend of mine has had very good experiences with her kids in the Edina and Minnetonka School Districts, both to the west of Minneapolis.

I also love the area around Lake Minnetonka (Woodland & Deephaven). Edina also offers very nice housing.

I would be careful with city schools. The Minneapolis school district does not have a good reputation from what I undestand even among urban school districts.

[Kebinminn]

On the west end Minnetonka, Edina, Wayzata and Hopkins are known as the best districts. I think Eden Prairie is supposed to be decent too. If you need to keep a tight budget Hopkins is your best bet. Anoka-Hennepin, Osseo and Robbinsdale are so-so for repuation. Again, there are both good and bad for each.

A lot does depend on what you're looking for. I'm having a heck of a time finding the right school even among the better districts.

Also, one thing you may not know is Minnesota has open enrollment so if you do end up unhappy with your district you can apply to send your child to another. Resident kids obviously get first choice but many families choose this as an option to get away from schools they're unhappy with.

Minneapolis schools have a horrible repuation right now. I don't recall what the graduation rate is but it's a lot lower than the suburbs. There are schools in the district that have a good repuation but the district as a whole does not.

My son is in kindergarten now and I've been doing a lot of research as I'm considering options for next year and the districts I mentioned as good are districts I'm considering for open-enrollment if we do make a change.

[uptown_urbanist]

"The district as a whole" in the context of Minneapolis and St. Paul doesn't matter; the individual schools matter, and some of the schools (including high schools) have extremely good reputations.

That's a moot point if you don't want to live in the city, but if you do, you don't need to worry. Minnesota public schools, including its urban schools, have a great national reputation. Having lived in other metro areas where public schools have been a MAJOR issue (and where property values could go up by massive amounts if you moved two blocks away and into a different district) I can say that the issue is nothing like that in the Twin Cities.

As an aside, the real issue with the city schools comes with the divisions found within the district; there are the kids who are getting the top education that can hold its own (or beat) the wealthiest suburbs, and then there are the kids who are falling through the cracks, not graduating, and getting a terrible education. There's a lot of segregation in the Twin Cities, and you see that in the city schools as well. MPS are different than many other bigger cities because there is still a strong core of middle class and wealthy kids who go public, although there's also the kids from poor families, often immigrants with limited English, or who otherwise don't have the advantages disproportionately enjoyed by the middle class and rich kids. That's led to one of the biggest gaps in achievement and graduation rates between the white kids and the non-white kids, which may be where this idea of the district having a bad national reputation. Obviously that's an issue, and kids of all backgrounds deserve a good education, but the answer for those considering if the MPS are right for their own kids is that if you're an average middle class or wealthy family that cares about education then your kids will have access to some of the best schools around. It won't matter to you specifically if the graduation rates or test scores of some of the other kids in the district are bad (well, it will, as it should matter to all of us wherever we live or whatever our socio-economic status), because it's not relevant. Your kid will still have great teachers, excellent opportunities, and will be graduating from a class inevitably filled with top college-bound National merit scholars and other academic heavy-hitters. (at the high schools there's also a great deal of tracking, which makes some schools-within-schools)

School districts have all been hit with major budget issues recently, so there have been and will be some changes in the coming years. Anoka-Hennepin (NW suburbs, huge district) district, for example, had (I believe) the largest number of teacher cuts last year, which led to some fairly significant increases in average classroom size.

The open enrollment option is a good thing to know about, although I don't think it's a sure thing. We had some kids from Edina at my high school, but I believe they had to close the program to open enrollment because there wasn't room for out-of-district kids.

What area of the Twin Cities do you want to live in? You won't want to buy a place in Edina and then end up working on the other side of St. Paul. I'd start with figuring out where you expect to be working first (or spending a lot of your time), and then worry about the specific school or district next. It's not like some cities where there's only one or two good options to choose from.

[MplsTodd]

As a parent who has two kids in Minneapolis public schools, I agree with UptownUrbanist's statement that there is a much wider range of performance in the city schools than suburban districts. Its unfortunate that most people do accept the broadbrush dismissal of MPS because of low graduation rates and low test scores. It really varies considerably from school to school. I'd gladly compare the performance of many of the schools in SW Mpls with suburban ones: check out Lake Harriet Community School, Barton, Burroughs, Armitage, Hale, or check out Southwest and South High Schools.

[MN55]

On the East Metro suburbs, I would say:

Best Districts:
Mounds View (Probably the best district in the state)
Mahtomedi
Stillwater

Above Average:
White Bear Lake
Roseville
Centennial

Average:
Forest Lake
South Washington County (Woodbury and Cottage Grove)
Hastings

Avoid:
North St. Paul-Oakdale-Maplewood

[Kebinminn]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

"The district as a whole" in the context of Minneapolis and St. Paul doesn't matter; the individual schools matter, and some of the schools (including high schools) have extremely good reputations.

As a parent looking for a new home I would want to know about the repuation of both the district and the individual schools. Sometimes perception matters as much as actual performance. When something is perceived to be poor you will have more parents choosing to send their kids elsewhere even if every kid who goes through that school has a positive experience. The perception affects how many other families may make the decision to move to that area. The perception can affect a lot. I clearly stated that while some individual schools have a good repuation the district does not and that is true whether it's deserved or not.

It's no different than talking about some of the suburbs. Some are considered snobbish, others working class, others dangerous and so on. We frequently share those perceptions here to people who want to live there and it does matter, but just as with schools you will find a lot of variety. Not everyone in Chanhassen is a snob and not everyone in Brooklyn Center is a gang banger but if I were moving into the area I'd want to know how they're perceived.

[uptown_urbanist]

The perception of many people, however, is that Minnesota is known for its excellent public schools. And yes, that includes the city schools. The college recruiters certainly seemed to have figured that out, anyway. If by perception you mean do people with families avoid buying houses in the city, or do they automatically assume that they will have to go private or move elsewhere when the kids get old enough for school then no, I don't think there is an overwhelming perception problem with the city districts. We used to live in LA, and it's like a night-and-day difference between the cities. In LA school districts dominate many family housing decisions; for most Twin Cities residents I don't think it does. Minneapolis as a city is filled with families with kids, and unlike a lot of cities I've never encountered any of that playground chatter about the "need" to move to a suburban district for the sake of education.

I suppose if we're only talking perception here, then I would say that my perception is that kids who go to schools in Edina, Eden Prairie, Wayzata, and other ritzier suburban schools have a much higher problem with excessive drinking and drugs than do the city schools (and districts like St. Louis Park).

I don't mean to diminish the importance of perceptions, and by all means all of us should continue to share them, but compared to most cities I don't think there is any major perception issue. It's not going to impact property value or keep you from selling a house or mean that there aren't going to be any other kids in your neighborhood or mean that all your city neighbors are all moving to Edina once their kid hits five. The value of a house doesn't jump up tens of thousands (or more) dollars if you cross a street from one district to the next. It could just be my friends and family, but in the Twin Cities school district is not the overriding, or even a major, factor when it comes to choosing a place to live.

Maybe the question here should not be perception, but rather who is doing the perceiving. Most city parents perceive the city school options to be quite good. Maybe most, or at least some, suburban parents don't. I perceive Edina High School to be filled with drug-using alcohol-swigging rich kids (although I know that's not true, and do know wonderful, smart, successful, non-drug using people who went there), but I assume that's not how the parents who live in Edina perceive it.

When it comes to college admissions, at least, the city public schools (at least some of them) have a great reputation, so no need to fear there. Some of the public schools in the suburbs also have excellent reputations. If I were going to go for a suburban district based on perception alone I'd go with St. Louis Park; the schools are supposed to be great (and everyone I know who has had kids there or who has graduated from there has been happy), but there's less of a keeping-up-with-the-Jones thing going on than I perceive in some districts. It's a district for smart, motivated kids.