Woodbury 833 public schools vs. other south/suburban districts? (Eagan, Apple Valley: short sales, 2014)

[nbtmn]

My husband and I live in an older part of Woodbury, and have been here for almost a decade. We originally picked this part of the metro as it was in between our jobs at the time, and especially was closer to my job in the south metro without being as far from our family, who all live in the north metro. Though we really like our house, neighborhood, and location, we've just started discussing whether or not a relocation might be worth considering sometime in the future, due to a few factors.

The biggest factor is the public school system. Since we moved to the area, we had a child, who is almost 2. At the time we moved here, we did a bit of research and thought the school system here was good, but I've done some looking now and find that most other metro area suburban high school systems such as Apple Valley, Lakeville, Eagan, etc. are consistently more highly regarded than ours (South Washington County), including others in the north and west suburbs. I found another thread suggesting that the schools in Woodbury in 833 might be better than the nearby ones in Cottage Grove, Newport, etc. The elementary, middle, and high school we are zoned for are rated on GreatSchools as a 9, 9, and 10 respectively - which seems like it should be a good sign. However, one of my husband's relatives lives in a similar zoning area to us, and her impression of the schools here haven't been all that great, which concerns me.

FWIW, I attended the Mounds View School District growing up, which is one of the highest regarded districts in the state. Academically, I suppose I can see why it would be thought of as a good district, but I didn't really think of my experience as being all-around superior. I had some great teachers, but also a couple of bad ones, and overall there aren't a ton of teachers that I remember as being notable one way or another. I really wasn't impressed with my experience at MVHS (graduated over a decade ago), as I found it overcrowded and a bit stuck up. I was very thankful for the PSEO program that allowed me to get out early and attend college, an experience I enjoyed much better than HS. I found a Star Tribune article rating school systems and compared our zoned elementary, middle, and high school with the ones I attended growing up, and the scores seemed very much ballpark of each other.

If we moved, we'd look at suburbs in the south central metro, as there are more jobs in our industry in the south vs. north metro. My husband and I have both kicked around the idea of one or both of us becoming contractors sometime in the future, and it seems a south central location would be better for commuting than our current location if we weren't going to stay at the same company. I'm not as interested in the SW suburbs, since traffic there seems to be horrendous. I don't think a move would be immediate, but my husband strongly prefers if we move to do it before any kids of ours are in public school so we don't have to disrupt their lives as much. We've put a lot of money into home improvements and chosen better quality materials, with the intent that we will stay here for the long term, and that would be hard to give up. On the other hand, if we moved we may find a house with a configuration that fits our current needs a bit better, though our current house isn't bad.

So my main question is, what do the "better" suburban public school districts have that South Washington County, or notably the Woodbury schools in 833, lack, and how big is the difference between them? We'd probably only considering moving if there was a big difference between school systems, or if the package of school system + more central location + house configuration/neighborhood overall seemed like a better deal than staying here.

Thanks!

[golfgal]

Woodbury schools are fine. I don't know that they are any worse than the districts you have outlined. Woodbury and Eastridge tend to be a little more keeping up with the Jones' type schools if that matters one way or another to you. Cottage Grove schools are on my list of schools I would not attend. There are far better options.

The 196 schools are highly regarded and are the most financially healthy district in the state. Lakeville schools are also very good but their long-term budget issues could change that. Hopefully as the economy improves that will get better. Mounds View is also a great district. I would also look into Mahtomedi and Stillwater on the east side of the meto. Both districts are very good as well.

I would also take the Great Schools website with a grain of salt. It's an ok measure but really not the be all/end all. Pulling out my mythical scale, Woodbury and the other districts rank between 97-99% where as I would put Cottage Grove, Inver Grove Heights more into the 85% or so range. The better schools have better programs, a wider range of course offerings, a wider range of extracurriculars for the students, more parental involvement and just more emphasis on doing well in school and going to a 4 year college when you are done. Cottage Grove is more of a blue collar area where the goal for most might not be a 4 year college but maybe going on to a community college. Then, there are other districts where not even graduating high school is acceptable...

[jzeig104]

Well said

[nbtmn]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Woodbury schools are fine. I don't know that they are any worse than the districts you have outlined. Woodbury and Eastridge tend to be a little more keeping up with the Jones' type schools if that matters one way or another to you. Cottage Grove schools are on my list of schools I would not attend. There are far better options.

The 196 schools are highly regarded and are the most financially healthy district in the state. Lakeville schools are also very good but their long-term budget issues could change that. Hopefully as the economy improves that will get better. Mounds View is also a great district. I would also look into Mahtomedi and Stillwater on the east side of the meto. Both districts are very good as well.

I would also take the Great Schools website with a grain of salt. It's an ok measure but really not the be all/end all. Pulling out my mythical scale, Woodbury and the other districts rank between 97-99% where as I would put Cottage Grove, Inver Grove Heights more into the 85% or so range. The better schools have better programs, a wider range of course offerings, a wider range of extracurriculars for the students, more parental involvement and just more emphasis on doing well in school and going to a 4 year college when you are done. Cottage Grove is more of a blue collar area where the goal for most might not be a 4 year college but maybe going on to a community college. Then, there are other districts where not even graduating high school is acceptable...

Thanks for the summary, golfgal. You seemed to confirm what I had suspected, that school rankings/ratings, etc. don't tell the whole story, that schools can vary within a district, and that schools can be shaped by the involvement of families in their boundaries. I remember when I was in the MV school district, there was a big difference in the perception of the quality of MVHS vs. Irondale - though I'm not sure how much those perceptions matched reality. Interesting that you say Cottage Grove is a more blue collar area, since the few families I've known that have lived there were college educated and generally had more white collar or professional type jobs.

The "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality makes me cringe a little, but I wouldn't call it a dealbreaker. When we first moved here, I didn't realize Woodbury had as affluent/privileged a reputation as it does. We live in what I consider a more "modest" part of the suburb. And I ultimately don't care about perception as much about actual quality of life.

I don't think we'd move for a slight change in school quality; I was mainly concerned about a significant one. If we did move for location reasons, it sounds like 196 would best fit the bill. I did know that Stillwater and Mahtomedi are also though to to be highly rated (along with MV), though I'm not sure those locations would be best for us as more jobs in our industry seem to be located in the south metro. Moving further north would put us closer to most of our family in the area, though having a reasonable daily commute is more important to us than being super close to family.

[HKB]

I'm a little late with this response, so hopefully you're still reading this.

I also live in an older neighborhood in Woodbury. We have a Kindergartener in public school here, and have been very pleased with it. I know Woodbury High School is rated in the Top 10 of Minnesota high schools (for what it's worth). I think your fears of our school district are a little unfounded... especially the Woodbury schools.

[WoodburyWoody]

We moved to Woodbury (883) from Eagan (196).

Both are very, very solid districts by the commonly-sited rubrics out there:

2013 Minnesota school test scores
How did your school fare in the latest rankings? | Star Tribune
Minnesota Schools - Minnesota State School Ratings - Public and Private
Top Minnesota High Schools | Best High Schools | US News - US News

When we researched before moving, it seemed like a very apple-to-apple comparison ... but some pretty good apples from which to choose.

I don't know about Woodbury as being "affluent/privileged." There is certainly a keeping up with the Jones mentality in certain areas (mine is one of them), but there is also a lot of consumer debt and a fair number of foreclosures and short sales occurring as well.

[jzeig104]

There seems to be a big shake-up in the District 833 Schools right now at the administrative level. After having experience at the district level in another district, there are big red flags that something is going on in District 833 that isnt positive. Without solid leadership, things can go South quickly. If I were the OP, I would keep a keen eye on staff exits at the district office and watch or attend school board meetings. Teaching staff are definitely affected by these kinds of upheavals, contrary to what some will say.

It could turn out just fine for 833, or it could be a very bad sign of things to come.

[Stillnew]

New 2014 usnews rankings have Woodbury High in top 10 of MN....

Top Minnesota High Schools | Best High Schools | US News - US News

[nbtmn]

OP here. Thanks for the additional feedback. I think the main reason I was "concerned" about the 833 schools is that I always seemed to see them lumped in with the average/mediocre districts in the metro area. I think golfgal made a good point when she mentioned that 833 schools encompass not only Woodbury, but some more blue collar areas that don't necessarily provide a bad education, but just may not have as wide a variety of course offerings, which may explain why 833 isn't grouped with the other "cream of the crop" metro area districts.

We are zoned for Bailey/WMS/WHS. I did notice the WHS ranking on the latest US News report (and I think they were #16 in MN on the previous one), but I think it's hard to objectively compare schools against each other in lists like this one and usually think they should be taken with a grain of salt.

[golfgal]

Woodbury is fine, as is Eastridge. Cottage Grove brings down the "district" rankings. Not sure what the shake up jzeig104 is--if it's district wide or school specific but generally, the more affluent an area is, the better the schools are and even Cottage Grove schools are going to fare better than most districts nationally.