Mpls Southwest #1 High School....Again (Minneapolis, St. Paul: renting, homes, universities)

[northsub]

Originally Posted by golfgal

You went to SW, you do the math--the numbers are all there for you--the link posted earlier said there were 250 juniors and seniors in the IB program at SW. The USNWR said they only look at SENIORS, so say 125 kids to start with, look at the percent of kids taking the IB tests according to USNWR and then the passing rate and you get 51 kids......there were 30 kids in our kids room alone taking ONE AP test on Friday, one room out of 10--you do the math....

There is plenty that happens in Edina that doesn't happen at SW, namly, families that care if their kids get an education---with 100% graduation rate and 99% of their kids going on to 4 year colleges, you are comparing apples to turnips....

The U.S. News report isn't looking at kids in any kind of program. They are looking at all the seniors in the school which looks to be 384 students for Southwest. There's probably some effect from kids dropping out to lower that number (Southwest's freshman-junior class sizes are 425, 452, 466).

[northsub]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

I will accept your suggestion that the presence of Edina and Minnetonka are not an anomaly. Can you clarify your post somewhat for me? Do you think that the presence of Southwest on this particular list is an anomaly and, if so, why is that the case? You seem to suggest that Edina and Minnetonka are on more lists than Southwest. Is that your point? If so, could you specify what lists include these two schools but not Southwest. Thanks.

I don't know about lists. If you look at the rest of the data from the U.S. News report you get the following:

AP Exam pass rate:
Southwest: 48% , Edina: 86%, Minneotonka: 86%

Math proficiency rank:
Southwest: 21st, Edina: 4th, Minnetonka: 8th

Reading proficiency rank:
Southwest: 34th, Edina: 1st, Minnetonka: 7th

Here's some data of the first however many things I picked out from the state data site:
Data for Parents and Educators

4-year graduation rate:
Southwest: 79.7%, Edina: 93.2%, Minnetonka: 95.3%

GRAD math test pass rate:
Southwest: 72.6%, Edina: 85.4%, Minnetonka: 81.7%

MCA-II math proficiency
Southwest: 68.8%, Edina: 77.6%, Minnetonka: 73.1%

MCA-II reading:
Southwest: 76.2%, Edina: 94.9%, Minnetonka: 92.4%

MCA-II science:
Southwest: 48.4%, Edina: 80.5%, Minnetonka: 73.8%

students "on track" for success in math
Southwest: 75.8%, Edina: 84.5%, Minnetonka: 80.0%

students "on track" for success in reading
Southwest: 50.8%, Edina: 72.7%, Minnetonka: 76.7%

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by golfgal

You went to SW, you do the math--the numbers are all there for you--the link posted earlier said there were 250 juniors and seniors in the IB program at SW. The USNWR said they only look at SENIORS, so say 125 kids to start with, look at the percent of kids taking the IB tests according to USNWR and then the passing rate and you get 51 kids......there were 30 kids in our kids room alone taking ONE AP test on Friday, one room out of 10--you do the math....

There is plenty that happens in Edina that doesn't happen at SW, namly, families that care if their kids get an education---with 100% graduation rate and 99% of their kids going on to 4 year colleges, you are comparing apples to turnips....

I suggest you read the methodology again, as you seem to have yet again missed the fact that they are looking at SENIORS, ALL SENIORS. Not just those taking tests. If you can't grasp that important fact, then you're not going to be able to understand what the list is attempting to measure.

And again I ask: have you EVER spent any time at Southwest? I can tell you from personal experience (both as a former student myself, and now as someone who knows parents with students at or considering SW), the majority of SW families DO care about education. Seriously, have you ever been to SW Minneapolis? The area is swarming with teachers and professors and other people who quite literally have made education their career. You can bash SW all you like, but it's incredibly inaccurate to suggest that somehow it's a school lacking passionate, involved, parents. Not all kids come from families like that, of course (and it DOES have a more socioeconomic diverse student body than does Edina), but the vast majority do.

When I was a student the biggest difference between Edina and SW seemed to be that Edina students were far more known for heavy drinking and drugs and were more into conspicuous consumption. Not sure if that holds true today. Other than that, though, you're talking about mostly (but not all) coming from the same kinds of backgrounds, although from what I hear from friends today there are some cultural differences at the school level. I have friends who have concerns about the Edina schools not because of their academic quality, but because they worry about the values of some of the other families. There's probably a bit of self-selection going on there as I know some families looking for housing won't consider the Minneapolis side of the border because it's -- gasp! -- Minneapolis, while I certainly know just as many who refused to look at Edina because of their concerns with the outside pressures at Edina schools.

A smart, motivated, college-bound kid is going to be very well served by Southwest. Or Edina, for that matter. The kid who comes from a family that is not involved and does not prioritize education isn't necessarily going to do any better at Edina than at Southwest. Schools can only do so much, so for most parents picking a school what matters most is that the school is going to offer sufficient support and challenges for their own child.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by northsub

The U.S. News report isn't looking at kids in any kind of program. They are looking at all the seniors in the school which looks to be 384 students for Southwest. There's probably some effect from kids dropping out to lower that number (Southwest's freshman-junior class sizes are 425, 452, 466).

Again--read the methodology, all of it, and do the math....they scale down the participation rate to 75%, then calculate the percent of tests taken and the passing rate for seniors.....they only calculate the test taken by most students, so IB at SW...

Regardless--the survey is meaningless as all it tracks is kids that take at least one AP or IB test. It doesn't take into consideration real statistics like how many kids actually start 9th grade at a school and graduate, or how many kids go on to 4 year colleges....lets add THOSE numbers into these ranking and see where various schools fall....

[rzzz]

Not sure why it's so hard to believe Southwest might actually have high performing students with parents who care about education. The neighborhoods Southwest serves are basically where all the college professors at the U live. Southwest is where they send their kids...

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Again--read the methodology, all of it, and do the math....they scale down the participation rate to 75%, then calculate the percent of tests taken and the passing rate for seniors.....they only calculate the test taken by most students, so IB at SW...

Regardless--the survey is meaningless as all it tracks is kids that take at least one AP or IB test. It doesn't take into consideration real statistics like how many kids actually start 9th grade at a school and graduate, or how many kids go on to 4 year colleges....lets add THOSE numbers into these ranking and see where various schools fall....

Please stop telling people to "do the math." It's incredibly condescending, and the negative tone of your posts makes it difficult for the rest of us to have a reasonable discussion. Thank you.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by northsub

I don't know about lists. If you look at the rest of the data from the U.S. News report you get the following:

AP Exam pass rate:
Southwest: 48% , Edina: 86%, Minneotonka: 86%

Math proficiency rank:
Southwest: 21st, Edina: 4th, Minnetonka: 8th

Reading proficiency rank:
Southwest: 34th, Edina: 1st, Minnetonka: 7th

Here's some data of the first however many things I picked out from the state data site:
Data for Parents and Educators

4-year graduation rate:
Southwest: 79.7%, Edina: 93.2%, Minnetonka: 95.3%

GRAD math test pass rate:
Southwest: 72.6%, Edina: 85.4%, Minnetonka: 81.7%

MCA-II math proficiency
Southwest: 68.8%, Edina: 77.6%, Minnetonka: 73.1%

MCA-II reading:
Southwest: 76.2%, Edina: 94.9%, Minnetonka: 92.4%

MCA-II science:
Southwest: 48.4%, Edina: 80.5%, Minnetonka: 73.8%

students "on track" for success in math
Southwest: 75.8%, Edina: 84.5%, Minnetonka: 80.0%

students "on track" for success in reading
Southwest: 50.8%, Edina: 72.7%, Minnetonka: 76.7%

Thanks, but I was really just trying to get a better understanding of rcsteiner's post.

[Mason3000]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

Edina and Minnetonka are almost always at or near the top of any school ranking list generated for the state of Minnesota. Their presence on this list is not an anomaly.

Well Mpls SW has traditionally been in that same top-tier of schools + is ranked #1 in the state this year + #1 in the state last year + top-100 schools in the nation by a different publication the year before that, etc. etc. How many decades/years does this have to continue for people to accept that Mpls SW is at the very least, ONE OF the top schools in the state?

[xandrex]

Originally Posted by golfgal

There is plenty that happens in Edina that doesn't happen at SW, namly, families that care if their kids get an education---with 100% graduation rate and 99% of their kids going on to 4 year colleges, you are comparing apples to turnips....

Haha. Because somehow when you cross France you're in a land where parents care? Have you even been to the Edina-Minneapolis border? Both sides are spilling over with money and parents who wouldn't want their children to fail. Let's not pretend that somehow all people in Rosemount and the rest of the suburbs (but not the city!) are where the parents truly care. In fact, your assertion is insulting to the thousands of parents that send their kids to MPS with the goal of a good education.

[northsub]

Originally Posted by Mason3000

Well Mpls SW has traditionally been in that same top-tier of schools + is ranked #1 in the state this year + #1 in the state last year + top-100 schools in the nation by a different publication the year before that, etc. etc. How many decades/years does this have to continue for people to accept that Mpls SW is at the very least, ONE OF the top schools in the state?

I'm guessing you're talking Newsweek or the Washington Post where the criteria was also how many students take IB and AP exams. Actually, that *was* the criteria for Newsweek. They changed their formula and Southwest is no longer listed amongst the listed schools (9 listed in Minnesota).

I'd buy into Southwest being a top school in the state when it starts to get listed highly by multiple criteria, particularly state exam scores. Right now, it looks like Southwest is a place where a lot of kids take AP and IB tests (and don't pass with the same rate as other schools).