Minneapolis once again a top city for families (St. Paul, Austin: middle-class, rental)

[xandrex]

Minneapolis/St. Paul ranked high again on the list of places to raise children. The list has some big names, so it's great to see us high up on the list with other great cities like Boston, Austin, and Seattle.

There are some cities that are a little questionable though - Washington, D.C. is definitely filled with lots of cultural opportunities, but I wonder if anyone would be willing to send their kids to the public schools there - I haven't heard much good about them (perhaps I'm mistaken).

The link is here.

(On another note, I feel I post a ton of links here...haha)

[west336]

DC? Maybe PRIVATE schooling, but certainly not public schools. If the article doesn't delineate the two, then it's hard to distinguish who is really truly family-friendly. Minneapolis definitely is -- it's got to be the most family-friendly on all levels in the country that I've personally seen. You can find similar bargains in the Midwest (not really the South), but you'll be comparing Minneapolis to Indianapolis, Columbus and Kansas City (none have excellent public schools). No, Minneapolis is for sure a gem if you value family AND aren't rich enough to secure their well-being with money alone.

[uptown_urbanist]

We used to live in DC, and had considered moving back. It was pre-child, but I worked with people who had kids and faced that decision -- from what I understand, some of the elementary schools are quite good, and some of the specialized high schools (IF you can get in) are also decent. You also pay a premium to live in the areas with good zoned elementary schools, and DC is not cheap, especially if you need space for a family. Ours was in one of them, and I'd often see rental listings hyping that fact. I think DC is a great place for families, but the school issue is definitely a much bigger concern there than it is here. Minneapolis has some problem schools, but overall it's much easier to find and get into a good public school (including at the high school level), and for those who do prefer private, the cost of living is overall so much lower that I think it would be much easier for a middle-class family to afford to go that route, should they so choose. Not all of our city schools are good, certainly, but compared to many other big city districts we have it pretty good. Not to mention that for those who are unhappy with their local zoned options and can't get into any of the magnets of their choice (and even the odds of getting into magnets are generally higher here than in many cities), there's always open enrollment. I think the combination of good schools, lower cost of living (for what you get in return), and plentiful housing options and neighborhoods for families makes this a very family-friendly city. DC (and many other big cities) is also extremely family-friendly IF you have the money to enjoy it. Granted, that's true here to some extent, but here you can access those benefits at a much lower price point. It's MUCH easier to live a good life on less money in Minneapolis than in many cities.

[southernsmoke]

Originally Posted by west336

You can find similar bargains in the Midwest (not really the South), but you'll be comparing Minneapolis to Indianapolis, Columbus and Kansas City (none have excellent public schools).

[west336]

Sorry to break the news to you southernsmoke......I thought this was a given by now.

[southernsmoke]

Originally Posted by west336

Sorry to break the news to you southernsmoke......I thought this was a given by now.

I was a little confused about what you were talking about. Housing and cost of living is significantly cheaper across the South than it is in the Twin Cities. So I'm genuinely confused what bargains you are talking about.

Of course, if you are talking about schools, I could point to the data that I posted in another thread a while back that correlated racial diversity with school "performance" and showed that Texas schools (supposedly among the worst in the country) actually outperform Wisconsin schools (supposedly some of the best in the country) on nearly all metrics when you control for racial differences. I could also say that you would be totally ignorant if you think that there are no high-scoring public schools in the South. I could also point out that with the cost of living differential, private schools are a more affordable option for a lot of people if the public schools aren't "good enough" for your tastes.

I'm not suggesting that Minneapolis is a bad city for families. I'm just trying to understand (and perhaps question) your statement that I quoted.

[Kebinminn]

I'm not surprised. There's an insane amount of things to do in this area with kids. It is a good place to raise them. With open enrollment and charter schools there's so much more choice.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by southernsmoke

I was a little confused about what you were talking about. Housing and cost of living is significantly cheaper across the South than it is in the Twin Cities. So I'm genuinely confused what bargains you are talking about.

Of course, if you are talking about schools, I could point to the data that I posted in another thread a while back that correlated racial diversity with school "performance" and showed that Texas schools (supposedly among the worst in the country) actually outperform Wisconsin schools (supposedly some of the best in the country) on nearly all metrics when you control for racial differences. I could also say that you would be totally ignorant if you think that there are no high-scoring public schools in the South. I could also point out that with the cost of living differential, private schools are a more affordable option for a lot of people if the public schools aren't "good enough" for your tastes.

I'm not suggesting that Minneapolis is a bad city for families. I'm just trying to understand (and perhaps question) your statement that I quoted.

The difference is--go to any southern state on this board and ask which schools you should send your kids to in any metro area of that state--you will get a list of 3 or 4 districts, ask the same question here and you will get a list of 3 or 4 NOT to attend and the rest are all pretty dang good. I would be VERY interested in seeing your metrics comparison of Texas schools to Wisconsin schools but you also have to take into consideration that the schools themselves are not segregated for minorities and that even though you may have a high performing student in a bad school they still have to deal with the discipline problems, slowed down curriculum, etc. because most of the kids in that school are NOT where they should be.

Using one simple comparison that is a pretty good indicator of preparing kids for college-which is of top importance to most MN families-Average ACT score in Texas 20.8, average in MN 22.9, WI 22.1. On a 36 point scale, that is a HUGE difference, especially since the number of kids taking the ACT in Texas is so small. Mean SAT scores-Texas 484, 505, 473 (reading, math, writing), MN 594, 607, 580, WI 595, 604, 575. The 1462 composite from Texas wouldn't get you admitted to most colleges in MN.

Since these scores are colorblind and measure college bound students, they are one of the few comparable state by state test scores.

http://www.act.org/news/data/10/stat...utm_medium=web

http://professionals.collegeboard.co...rs-2010/tables

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by southernsmoke

I was a little confused about what you were talking about. Housing and cost of living is significantly cheaper across the South than it is in the Twin Cities. So I'm genuinely confused what bargains you are talking about.

Of course, if you are talking about schools, I could point to the data that I posted in another thread a while back that correlated racial diversity with school "performance" and showed that Texas schools (supposedly among the worst in the country) actually outperform Wisconsin schools (supposedly some of the best in the country) on nearly all metrics when you control for racial differences. I could also say that you would be totally ignorant if you think that there are no high-scoring public schools in the South. I could also point out that with the cost of living differential, private schools are a more affordable option for a lot of people if the public schools aren't "good enough" for your tastes.

I'm not suggesting that Minneapolis is a bad city for families. I'm just trying to understand (and perhaps question) your statement that I quoted.

I agree with you that there are definitely good sites in the south to raise a family. Many southern cities offer an even greater bargain than Minneapolis, and I know there are definitely some very good schools to be found. The South is a huge region, though; like the Midwest, there are some places excellent for families, other places, well, not so much. In general, I think comparing state to state is pretty useless for practical purposes (i.e. those considering relocation), or even district-to-district.

[southernsmoke]

Originally Posted by golfgal

The difference is--go to any southern state on this board and ask which schools you should send your kids to in any metro area of that state--you will get a list of 3 or 4 districts, ask the same question here and you will get a list of 3 or 4 NOT to attend and the rest are all pretty dang good. I would be VERY interested in seeing your metrics comparison of Texas schools to Wisconsin schools but you also have to take into consideration that the schools themselves are not segregated for minorities and that even though you may have a high performing student in a bad school they still have to deal with the discipline problems, slowed down curriculum, etc. because most of the kids in that school are NOT where they should be.

Using one simple comparison that is a pretty good indicator of preparing kids for college-which is of top importance to most MN families-Average ACT score in Texas 20.8, average in MN 22.9, WI 22.1. On a 36 point scale, that is a HUGE difference, especially since the number of kids taking the ACT in Texas is so small. Mean SAT scores-Texas 484, 505, 473 (reading, math, writing), MN 594, 607, 580, WI 595, 604, 575. The 1462 composite from Texas wouldn't get you admitted to most colleges in MN.

Since these scores are colorblind and measure college bound students, they are one of the few comparable state by state test scores.

2010 ACT National and State Scores: Average Scores by State

2010 SAT Trends

I understand the disparities in the averages, but you might find this provocative, if nothing else: iowahawk: Longhorns 17, Badgers 1

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

I agree with you that there are definitely good sites in the south to raise a family. Many southern cities offer an even greater bargain than Minneapolis, and I know there are definitely some very good schools to be found. The South is a huge region, though; like the Midwest, there are some places excellent for families, other places, well, not so much. In general, I think comparing state to state is pretty useless for practical purposes (i.e. those considering relocation), or even district-to-district.

I pretty much agree with that, too. So much is personal preference (city vs. country; cold vs. warm; etc.).