[scarabchuck]

Originally Posted by One Thousand

Oh, it's a tribute to the so many Americans who want to mind someone else's business... Whether it be forcing others to use safety equipment against their will or forcing them to participate in the socialized retirement fund that rips us off so thoroughly or using strong-arm tactics to coerce investors to pay a forced wage instead of market wage.

I like it that you're worried about your job. I like it that you might be homeless... because you've infringed on my freedom. And if it means the implosion of America rather than sustaining a socialist state, I say the sooner the better.

What shocks me is that some of you hold the opinion that Americans who cherish freedom would team up with you when you're infringing on freedom. It's crazy.

Be competitive. You don't deserve customers on account of where you live. You don't deserve a job.

You know , I'm really am happy for you. You obviously must be in a place where none of the this stuff effects you. Good for you and your family.
And I will agree with one of the only intelligent statements you've made. EVERYONE should be worried about there jobs, if you aren't then you've become fat and lazy and the person that works harder or is better qualified should get the job. Now that being said , working for a bowl of rice and living in a cardboard box while have multiple degrees doesn't qualify as "working harder or better qualified " and that is the issue. A fair playing field.

And to be honest with you, I am not from the side that demands seatbelt laws, helmet laws etc....

I'm done have a good one !

[One Thousand]

Originally Posted by scarabchuck

EVERYONE should be worried about there jobs, if you aren't then you've become fat and lazy and the person that works harder or is better qualified should get the job.

How does one get fat? They consume too much. The government consumes too much and has become fat... Now, the more fit countries are beginning to lap us.

And to be honest with you, I am not from the side that demands seatbelt laws, helmet laws etc...

Burden of democracy... Whatever happens is on all shoulders.

[kimba01]

I do not like that the government infringes on our freedoms for sure. There are alot of people out there who believe all the "we are only thinking of your safety" rhetoric. I highly doubt it. It buys support. Just like the smoking bans. What a crock.

Now, I wish that I could really believe that the gov was doing something for the better, but I think it is all just another way to keep "big brother" watching and controlling you.

That being said, it may help the younger generations form better habits that can be better for them such as; seatbelts, helmets, not smoking, recycling...but I think that should be started at a home level, not a government level.

[TaxBait]

Originally Posted by One Thousand

...When I spend a dollar on U.S. made products, I have to earn around 1.50 to spend the dollar and that one dollar I spent is going to be .50 in the next person's pocket. Why should I have to earn a 1.50 to buy .50 worth of product? The least I can do to beat the system is to buy foreign so that my 1.50 goes further....

Which is exactly why we need to scrap income taxes and go to consumption taxes like the rest of the world. It will level the playing field more than any other factor. There is still a home field advantage. If costs were much closer, companies would think twice about investing in foreign countries or dealing with foreign suppliers.

[scottmi]

Originally Posted by scarabchuck

Wow ! I am so shocked that you actually believe the "globalization hype" I can't think straight. I'll only say this, the only way to make yourself "more marketable than a foreign worker" is to pay the company for you to work there !
You obviously don't work in a field that is affected by globalization. And I don't mean menial labor intensive jobs I'm talking about a skilled trade. I have talked with some of my "counterparts" in India and they basically live at the company in provided housing, they get to see there families once every couple of months (one individual lives over 12 hours away) and basically work for less than a quarter of what the job pays here. I'd be ecstatic to give up $10k a year to ensure me being employed. But that isn't the case , we aren't given that choice. The jobs just get shipped overseas and we get layed off , end of story. So tell me again , How is this helping the United States and it's people ? You would be spewing a different story if this directly effected you and your family. And don't tell me it's about education, some of us have worked from the ground up learning our trades, when that WAS the education that was needed for the career we chose. Again I see no benefit to the people other than the business owners and CEO's.

Sorry to tell you this but all types of work are affected in a recession - some of the more shady ones may actually do better (repo companies, bankruptcy attorneys, etc.) but because of the domino effect of money, even white collar jobs are affected. Do you even know that when the economy starts to go sour, the first industry affected is advertising/media??? It's true. So when construction/physical laborer people in the early '00s were still making decent wages and whatnot people in my field were getting axed left and right or taking huge pay cuts.

I'm sorry you're in a profession that is now outdated/outsourced. Everyone at some point in their career runs the risk of becoming obsolete - even I'm aware that in 10-20 years my field may be completely different than it is now. Since I know this, I try my best now to keep building on my talents and skills so that if the time comes when I need to take on more than I was technically trained in I can do the job.

The problem union workers and most blue collar workers have, from what I can tell anyways...is that they get to a point in their career in a certain part of the country where the economy is stable for whatever reason and they just stay put and don't change with the times. People knew for decades that the car industry was turning into crap in the US and I'm sorry, but it's not like they had six months to find a new career or train for a backup one - they had DECADES. Instead, blue collar workers (especially in the 90s when times were really good) decided to stay at their $30-$40+/hr. jobs to make as much money as they could and never bothered to think a decade or two down the road.

So what happened? Massive layoffs and a new economy that has no place for thousands of workers who are unqualified for anything but entry-level, low-pay jobs. Can't say I'm too sad over that idea. People should have been getting a degree of some sort or relocating years ago when they had a chance.

Originally Posted by joey71

This is the biggest pile of stink that I have seen yet-- You mean to tell me that there is a difference of $10,000 and partial benefits ,JUST TO KEEP YOUR JOB-- Are you kidding me??? I would love to take a mere $10,000.00 pay cut a year if I had STEADY WORK!! But that is not the case anymore!!


Wake up and stop being so damn short sighted, look beyond one segment and look at the whole picture it is really not that confusing!!!

Union or non-union ---corporations need to make HUGE, GIGUNDUS, MONSTOROUS PROFITS and I do not care what you do for that company-- YOU ARE OVERHEAD (as long as they are cutting you a check)and if they can get you to work for immigrant wages they will be happy with that!! They want to pay you as little as possible.

Good freaking luck on finding a job right now that will pay any type of benefits, let alone a decent salary-- I do not care what part of the country your in- the only exception to that would be health care, accounting, or marketing/advertising. Oh wait damn it --none of those are blue collar!! Hey here ya go -- Wyoming, where you can make $16.00 hr. driving a freaking earth mover(that is really enough to take care of a family)-- but wait that is only because gas is $3.98 a gal, so that will bust here shortly.

I think I will bow out of this conversation, it gets me so darn wound up- Michigan is a great state with GREAT PEOPLE and no-one deserves to be treated as we have been!! Corporate greed runs this country not the people!!!

No steady work? Then you have to move where the jobs are. I've heard far too many people say, " can't leave - my family and memories are here in Michigan"...well that's all fine and dandy but those things aren't gonna pay your bills.

I'm also not stupid when it comes to businesses and workers. All companies thrive on cheap labor and no one has job security nowadays. Everyone lives in constant fear of losing their job. Fear isn't necessarily a bad thing, as it teaches you to stick with things and adapt and grow. However, I highly doubt every one in the US is going to start his/her own business, so it's sorta silly to get too pissy over companies taking advantage of us. The trick is find companies that'll take less advantage of you than others. So you need to find a way for you to stand out compared to other potential people...you can't just be a cookie-cutter employee anymore and expect riches.

And as for Michigan overall - it's a nice state and is pretty during a few months each year...but it was sorta asking for this to happen. Decades ago the people in charge poured everything into a few industries and cities and ignored the rest of the huge state and its resources. Now, after the biggest industry (car) and city (Detroit) have been pronounced dead, there's nothing else for MI to offer its residents. Michigan people should have been more observant of the world beyond the Union Meetings years ago and realized the bottom was going to drop out very, very soon.

[scarabchuck]

[quote=scottmi;3832006]
No steady work? Then you have to move where the jobs are. I've heard far too many people say, " can't leave - my family and memories are here in Michigan"...well that's all fine and dandy but those things aren't gonna pay your bills.

quote]

I agree I've heard the "can't leave" thing way too many times. I spent close to two years away from michigan. I left my girlfriend and house and did what I had to do. It was tough on our relationship and me. I only returned because the offer was just too good. Will it last ? I doubt it . will I be able to stay in MI ? Highly unlikely. The only way I've lasted this long in my proffesion is by learning as much as I could (I'm fluid in 3 of the major software packages), I'm willing to relocate, and as much as I hate the offshoring thing , I've actually had to work with it. So far things have been good.
I really think people have become brainwashed, or are so far away from it they don't care, or are profiting from it.

[Huckleberry3911948]

france is in bout same shape as us but the unions are the ones trying to keep their jobs they are losing but they are going down at least fighting. french union rally reps are physically attacked at rallies by immigrants. we are, on the other hand, sinking to the bottom of the swimming pool smiling. we are ashamed of any attempt to take a labor stand, e.g. labor unions, anti immigration, anything.
just when did we decide government and corporations would treat us fairly in the absence of unions?