[Driller1]

Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie

This is misleading. We're not just dumping raw sewage in our lakes and rivers. Treated sewage, yes, but treated sewage isn't exactly poison. Water is renewable. The water by your desk right now was probably Tyrannosaurus pee at some point around 65 million years ago. The difference is that after the T-Rex peed it out the water evaporated, leaving behind the urea in the soil where it was then diluted by rain from potentially former Pterodactyl pee and ran off into the water system or was absorbed by the soil in such minor concentrations as to never be harmful to anyone or anything.

This story about dinosaur pee is obviously stupid, but my point is water that was formerly sewage is not necessarily bad if property treated. The chlorine which is added to water is to keep microbial growth down and is added in concentrations that would by no means affect human health.

Well water has many of its own issues. It can be impacted by many many things infiltrating the aquifer or even the equipment used to extract the water. This can include chlorine in it, but like city water, the chlorine content must be below defined EPA and MDEQ standards for drinking water. Water from the Detroit River must also meet these standards. It does. You can check your local municipality for water quality. In the end it all depends on the well or the municipal water system (and your home's equipment, as seen in the case of Flint).

This is the 2014 Water Quality Report for Royal Oak
http://www.ci.royal-oak.mi.us/webfm_send/3980

Yes, raw sewage does get dumped in lakes and rivers.

Overflow happens...........and many septic systems on rivers and lake dump raw sewage in the water.

Read the nitrates on your own report.

This water would fail a test for a new well.

[Geo-Aggie]

Originally Posted by DONNIEANDDONNA417

What the hell does being black have to do with it?...I was going to really going to blast you but I decided to pray for you

As ignorant and cold as this may sound, I'm just going to pose a frank question here (and moderators, please feel welcome to censor this if you find it inappropriate). But do we think things would have been handled differently if it was a white working class town, such as Warren or Burton?

[Ummagumma]

We're talking about the problem caused by untreated minerals in water supply corroding the lead in old pipes. Not chlorine, or bacteria (sewage or not).

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Ummagumma

This has nothing to do with fixing the pipes. Detroit has the same old pipes and the same corrosive water source (well, a different mix of corrosive minerals). What Detroit did when they first ran into this problem some decades ago was to test the water, develop a mix of chemicals specifically designed to reduce the corrosive properties of that water, and add this corrective treatment to the water before releasing it to customers.

This is what the certified, degreed Water Treatment specialists are hired to do. And this is not an extremely expensive process. I bet you that Flint was still adding some mix of treatment chemicals to the Flint river water - just not the right mix. Most likely they just copied what Detroit was doing, without consideration to the difference in mineral content of different water sources.

This whole fiasco is the result of the gross incompetence and criminal negligence of Flint Water Department personnel. Who are, most likely, shielded from any criminal or civil prosecution. These people were hired by the City. Now the City politicians and their supporters are trying to shift the blame on Snyder and his Emergency Manager for forcing them to change the water source. Except it's not Snyder's fault that the people running Flint Water Department didn't know how to do their job. Changing water source is like replacing your roof - it's not supposed to end in a disaster if the people hired to do this job know what they are doing.

Wow, I can't believe you don't think Snyder is at all culpable in any of this. The MDEQ is a State Dept, not city. Snyder appointed the Emergency Manager, who works for Snyder, who with the Flint City council voted to switch to Flint River water but not to add the needed chemicals.

Apology, resignations over Flint are good first steps

I know a lot of people here like Snyder but c'mon, he's not infallible. You have to take responsibility not only for your own actions, but the actions of those who work for you when you're the Governor. People's lives are now in danger because of these decisions and oversights.

[acriii]

Before placing bets and making criminal accusations based on mere assumption, knee-jerks should be replaced by research, like this publicly available letter regarding Flint water quality: https://www.cityofflint.com/wp-conte...er-Request.pdf

[Ummagumma]

The article says that Flint City Water department decided to not add the required chemicals and MDEQ approved this.

Was there a specific discussion on not adding these chemicals with MDEQ ? Or did The Flint Water Department provide MDEQ with a complete switchover plan and they signed off on it ?

Regardless, even per your article, the decision was ultimately made within the Flint Water Department. MDEQ could probably overrule them if they realized the consequences. But the claim that many anti-Snyder sources are making is that the decision to switch to Flint water by itself put residents in danger, and it's not true. The switch could have been done safely if handled by more competent people.

[Lyndarn]

What really bothers me is how much effort officials went towards the obfuscations of Lead in drinking water when it was brought up last year by Paediatricians and suppressing the Virginia Tech researcher's obtaining public records that would show who knew what and when!! Then once DOJ investigation was about to be made public...yowza..Major of Flint and Gov. Snyder come out with their admission of the problem and want to look forward to fixing the problem

When did state know kids in Flint were lead poisoned?

Flint switched its water supply in April 2014, drawing its drinking water from the Flint River while a new regional water system it plans to join next year is under construction. The local water treatment plant, with the approval of the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality, failed to add chemicals to the river water that would have prevented lead in aging service lines from leaching into the water. All of these decisions were made with the approval of a series of emergency managers, appointed by Snyder to guide the city back to financial stability.

Within months, the amount of lead in Flint's drinking water soared. Lead poisoning is irreversible, and can cause behavioral and developmental problems in children.

So while dragging their heels..meanwhile irreversible damages continued causing affected young kids and pregnant mother's have been directly injured. Here's a few links to indicate how Lead affects these folks and the costs to lives by these elected officials

Lead Poisoning

Long-term exposure to lead, a naturally occurring metal used in everything from construction materials to batteries, can cause serious health problems, particularly in young kids. Lead is toxic to everyone, but unborn babies and young children are at greatest risk for health problems from lead poisoning — their smaller, growing bodies make them more susceptible to absorbing and retaining lead.

Each year in the United States, 310,000 1- to 5-year-old kids are found to have unsafe levels of lead in their blood, which can lead to a wide range of symptoms, from headaches and stomach pain to behavioral problems and anemia (not enough healthy red blood cells). Lead also can affect a child's developing brain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Ummagumma

The article says that Flint City Water department decided to not add the required chemicals and MDEQ approved this.

Was there a specific discussion on not adding these chemicals with MDEQ ? Or did The Flint Water Department provide MDEQ with a complete switchover plan and they signed off on it ?

Regardless, even per your article, the decision was ultimately made within the Flint Water Department. MDEQ could probably overrule them if they realized the consequences. But the claim that many anti-Snyder sources are making is that the decision to switch to Flint water by itself put residents in danger, and it's not true. The switch could have been done safely if handled by more competent people.

Well if the switch was signed off by and overseen by the Emergency Manager, it ultimately rests on his shoulders (and Snyder's), as well as the MDEQ. If you read ALL the articles that have been out, particularly recently, the city was relying on information provided by MDEQ. And the Emergency Manager has overarching power over everyone at the city, including the city council (part of the complaints about Snyder's Emergency Manger policies).

Here's another article with timeline:

http://michiganradio.org/post/timeli...olded#stream/0

[magellan]

Originally Posted by magellan

Well if the switch was signed off by and overseen by the Emergency Manager, it ultimately rests on his shoulders (and Snyder's), as well as the MDEQ. If you read ALL the articles that have been out, particularly recently, the city was relying on information provided by MDEQ. And the Emergency Manager has overarching power over everyone at the city, including the city council (part of the complaints about Snyder's Emergency Manger policies).

Here's another article with timeline:

TIMELINE: Here's how the Flint water crisis unfolded | Michigan Radio

A lot of people are responsible for this mess, for sure.

I merged this thread with the Cher thread to keep all discussions about Flint's water situation to one thread. Thanks.

[danielj72]

Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie

As ignorant and cold as this may sound, I'm just going to pose a frank question here (and moderators, please feel welcome to censor this if you find it inappropriate). But do we think things would have been handled differently if it was a white working class town, such as Warren or Burton?

I have not lived in Michigan for a while now so I don't have all the info on this issue that people up there do but from what I remember all of Genesee county was connected to the Flint water supply. I also remember that they got it from Detroit before as well. If Flint decided to provide their own water then its reasonable to assume that the people in Burton Mi are drinking it as well. This story sounds awful, really it sounds like some people should be going to jail. You should be able to trust the water coming out of your faucet, and if criminal incompetence is the reason it cant be trusted then folks should be held to account for it. Flint already has a terrible reputation that contributes to its current condition. Even down here this water story has been on the news, obviously this has further hurt Flints reputation. Every negative event makes it tougher for a depressed downtrodden area like Flint to recover. So now on top of crime and unemployment people can think of poison water when they think of Flint Mi. Shame on those responsible for this.