[scottmi]

Originally Posted by tecpatl

MK: You'll be interested to know that the old State Hospital, or at least large parts of it, has a new and vibrant life. After the State shut it down it pretty much sat there rotting, as plan after plan for other uses were designed debated and cast aside.

Finally, one of those evil local Business Owners that scottmi blames for the sad state of his life took the issue by the horns, put up LOTS of his own money and just started the redevelopment.

The State Hospital is one of the creepiest places imaginable!!!! What's more romantic than going to have dinner at a fancy restaurant that just happens to be AN OLD MENTAL HOSPITAL! Hahaha....geez.

And while I'm sure one of those local business owners just started redeveloping it because he/she wants to give back to the community, huh? RIGHT. That may be one goal...but he/she wants to line their pockets a bit more in the process if possible...and getting your name in the paper and on the news for "helping redevelop poor ol' TC" is cheap advertising.

"Grand Traverse Commons is flourishing and growing like a weed."

Couldn't have said it better myself. TC, now that you mention it...is like a weed. Completely useless and only present to remind you of how much better things are around it.

It's great to see....why even those poor ol' 20-somethings seem to like it, and some find jobs there as well.

Ohhhh boy! Did you hear that Generation X & Y'ers? Now we can live like kings 'cause teakettle, er tecpatl said we can! Maybe he can give 75% of use seasonal employment too and competitive (to fast food) wages!

Yippee! I'm gonna totally DIGG this conversation so I can let all my 20-somethin' Michigan buddies know, woo hoo!!! Did you hear me guys? We're moving to TC! Don't worry about bringing degrees or ambition! There's no room! Just aim low! Aim to be a WEED!!!!

[jmlowman]

Originally Posted by scottmi

I think if you have a Bachelor's Degree and have a job in your field with a couple years of experience under your belt (regardless of profession), you should be making NO LESS than $30,000 annually with GOOD benefits that don't rip you off (about $14/hr).

If you have 5-10 years worth of experience and the same educational background, you should have the same benefits (which can cover a spouse, children) and be making AT LEAST $40,000 annually.

If you have 15-20+ years and all the above, you should be easily making $45,000-$50,000 annually NO PROBLEM.

If I had a Bachelor's degree in anything reasonably marketable, I would be unhappy with $14 per hour. Here, that's clerks' pay. I would feel like I had wasted four years of my time and money.

Of course, that may be the difference between Michigan and SoCal. The cost of living is one hell of a lot higher here, so the higher salaries make some sense.

[scottmi]

^^^ Obviously, the pay would have to be adjusted to cost of living in an area.

In TC, these figures are more than fair. In New York City where rent is an average of $2,000 or more a month these rates would have to be double or tripled even so we aren't talking across the board, just TC, MI.

[TaxBait]

Originally Posted by jmlowman

... The cost of living is one hell of a lot higher here, so the higher salaries make some sense.

What's fast food pay there now? They used to advertise $9/hr to start when I left in 94.

[jmlowman]

Fast-food pay could be minimum wage or slightly better.

The one exception is a burger chain called In-n-Out (great burgers, BTW!) that started workers off at $8/hour as a few years ago. It was said that a manager could make $80,000 per year.

And one thing I've noticed every time that I go to In-n-Out is the fact that the workers actually seem to be happy to be working, and it's not forced the way it is in a regular restaurant.

Given that, and the attitudes of the drooling dumbasses working at the exploiters like McDonald's, I'd say that pay for fast-food workers wasn't that great in general.

[TaxBait]

Originally Posted by jmlowman

...Given that, and the attitudes of the drooling dumbasses working at the exploiters like McDonald's, I'd say that pay for fast-food workers wasn't that great in general.

Hmmm. Times have changed I guess. I was in SanDiego. Most of the fast food joints were run pretty well. You could usually count on good quality and we ate fast food quite often. Besides In-n-Out we liked Carl's JR, Rubios, and one of those fresh mex places I can't remember the name of. Then we moved to Denver and it was all pretty bad.

[mkfarnam]

Seeing pictures of TC State Hospital today makes it look like the Civil War days when I was in it. They show pictures of the area I was in. the caged in porches. I remember that the grounds were never fenced in, so ran away from there quit often. And then did 6mo's in seclusion. They even show the seclusion rooms.
My Disability was found not to be a Mental Illness, but a Physical Illness.

[tecpatl]

Originally Posted by scottmi

The State Hospital is one of the creepiest places imaginable!!!! What's more romantic than going to have dinner at a fancy restaurant that just happens to be AN OLD MENTAL HOSPITAL! Hahaha....geez.
Well, scottmi...aren't you just the little ray of sunshine! I'm beginning to understand why most people ignore your posts.
Fortunately, many thousands of people find going to a fine restaurant at GT Commons to be a great and worthwhile experience. IF you had a good job, you could probably afford to go too.

And while I'm sure one of those local business owners just started redeveloping it because he/she wants to give back to the community, huh? RIGHT. That may be one goal...but he/she wants to line their pockets a bit more in the process if possible...and getting your name in the paper and on the news for "helping redevelop poor ol' TC" is cheap advertising.

Maybe this has escaped you in your clearly deficient education, but entrepreneurs & business owners take chances, invest money (think: risk) and work weekends so they can make a profit and take care of their families. In this country it's called free enterprise, and the system, with all its faults, allows motivated people of all kinds to succeed and prosper. Along the way, many successful businesspeople share their good fortune with others..often with their community. There are many examples of this in the Grand Traverse area; charitable foundations, museums, parks, schools...funded by successful business people...those people you despise.

If Ray Minervini chose to take a chance no one else was willing to take and put his own money and sweat into GT Commons he DESERVES to make a good profit and I hope he does. Along the way, other people will see the opportunity, open businesses in that development and hopefully will succeed there as well. Yes, even 20somethings.

But the reason for being in business,working hard and risking failure is NOT, first and foremost, to provide YOU with a job that pays as much as you (poor deluded thing) imagine you're worth. You clearly think someone owes you something...but sorry, Mommy's breast is not coming back, so you're on your own now and are completely responsible for yourself, your happiness or your misery. This, I regret to have to tell you, is how the rest of life will be. Expecting others to see to your happiness and prosperity is bound to be disappointing, and your bitter, foolish rants make it clear this simple reality is already crushing you. What a pity. Time to "Man Up" there, scottmi.

Couldn't have said it better myself. TC, now that you mention it...is like a weed. Completely useless and only present to remind you of how much better things are around it.
Ohhhh boy! Did you hear that Generation X & Y'ers? Now we can live like kings 'cause teakettle, er tecpatl said we can! Maybe he can give 75% of use seasonal employment too and competitive (to fast food) wages!

You should be GLAD I'm not hiring, scottmi...cause I can smell " Whiney Loser" a mile away.
Over the years I hired many, many people in your age group and younger, and most, by far, did good work and went on to be successful in their lives. I also had to fire more than a few...and,maybe it's just a coincidence, but they sounded an awful lot like you. Hmmmm

Yippee! I'm gonna totally DIGG this conversation so I can let all my 20-somethin' Michigan buddies know, woo hoo!!! Did you hear me guys? We're moving to TC! Don't worry about bringing degrees or ambition! There's no room! Just aim low! Aim to be a WEED!!!!

This is where we part company, scottmi. I wish you luck (God knows you'll need it) but you're not worth the time or effort to me. Grow up.

[scottmi]

Originally Posted by tecpatl

This is where we part company, scottmi. I wish you luck (God knows you'll need it) but you're not worth the time or effort to me. Grow up.

Thanks for your words of wisdom.

Why do you even bother posting here? Obviously with your deep pockets and dozens upon dozens of employees you should be able to find something a little more "refined" and "elite" to do, right?

People like YOU who live in la-la land are this state's biggest problem.

A small population of business-owning snobs think life is fine and dandy because the biggest problems they have is deciding how many cars they should buy each year or if they should axe another employee so they can take another monthly vacation.

[100%Michigan]

Traverse City is great, but I would prefer you to re-consider your options. I think Grand Rapids, Michigan or Ann Arbor, Michigan may have more excitment. Unless you love the water and beaches, Traverse City, or Marquette, Michigan is the spot.