spanish or english. PLEASE pick one. (Miami: college, versus, pubs)

[Thomas Jefferson]

Originally Posted by crisp444

Reposting this; surprised people didn't get a kick out of this as much as I did:

One of the coolest things I have ever overheard was an old Cuban lady's response to a conversation between two 30-something South American guys (not sure of their nationality, but I would guess Venezuelan) about how English is not necessary in Miami and that they don't really care to learn it. When the old Cuban lady rolled her eyes, one of the 30-something guys said to her, in Spanish, "Excuse me, ma'am, are you Cuban or are you American?" This was in a restaurant on SW 8th Street in Coral Gables, so I'm sure they assumed she was likely one of the two. The old Cuban lady replied in heavily-accented but perfect English: "I am American. I left Cuba in 1962. I learned English and so should you."

Oh shi!@t crisp, similar stories happened to me when I got here. Reason number one I moved out of Miami till I learned English. It is tough for Hispanics to learn english in Miami or assimilate into the America culture. I know young people in Miami that have been living in the USA for 20 years and do not speak a lick of english. Shame on them!

[Manolón]

Originally Posted by Optional Angel

Manolon, come on, seriously? No wonder everyone hates us. I just agreed with Bostonian, wasn't trying to argue anything. You can say that immigrants are visitors and Americans are hosts, I just pointed out that Spanish-speaking Americans in Miami are also hosts to tourists and transplants. It's your country as much as it is ours, your ancestors may have been here longer but that doesn't mean you contributed anything. Stop worrying about the borders for a second, just take it for what it is. Today Miami is closer to Latin America than it is to Charleston, WV. It is what it is. Just because it's in the US doesn't mean it has to be like other US cities.

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About 80 percent of all inhabitants in Dade speak Spanish and are Hispanic.

Ergo

They are the host, the majority of the inhabitants of the city. The rest, wether from Tuscaloosa or Manheim are visitors, tourists, migrants, snowbirds, whatever.


I suppose the same thing happens in Hawaii with Japanese, in Boston with the Irish, etc.

[thelion]

Originally Posted by Manolón

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About 80 percent of all inhabitants in Dade speak Spanish and are Hispanic.

Ergo

They are the host, the majority of the inhabitants of the city. The rest, wether from Tuscaloosa or Manheim are visitors, tourists, migrants, snowbirds, whatever.


I suppose the same thing happens in Hawaii with Japanese, in Boston with the Irish, etc.

That's incorrect. According to the 2008 census 62% of Miami-Dade's population identify themselves as Hispanic/Latino, and about the same amount speak Spanish at home.

But we'll ignore the facts and favor word-of-mouth instead.

So a whopping 38% of Miami-Dade say they're not Hispanic, hardly a small minority we're talking about is it? Not really all visitors, tourists, migrants and snowbirds are they?

[Marlin331]

Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson

Oh shi!@t crisp, similar stories happened to me when I got here. Reason number one I moved out of Miami till I learned English. It is tough for Hispanics to learn english in Miami or assimilate into the America culture. I know young people in Miami that have been living in the USA for 20 years and do not speak a lick of english. Shame on them!

I agree that it can be very hard for people who move here as adults. If you live in a neighborhood where nearly everyone speaks Spanish, your coworkers talk to you in Spanish at work, etc. it will be a lot more difficult to practice your English. This is precisely the reason why there are people who have lived in Miami for 20 years but don't speak English. However, you'll almost never run into a Thai, French, Indian, etc. person who doesn't pick up English fairly quickly. These people HAVE to speak English to communicate and don't have the option to live among large concentrations of people who speak their native language.

For children, it's a different story. School is in English, sports teams/recreational activities are conducted in English, and I have never in my entire life met a child raised in Miami who actually prefers to speak Spanish with his/her friends. I am "weird" because I have a few friends with whom I speak Spanish, but that is so I don't lose my fluency, and of course we speak in English when hanging out with others, even around most people who are bilingual. For most children of Spanish-speaking parents, Spanish is used in the home and English outside of the home, and that really is the best of both worlds because they learn to speak both languages well.

[Marlin331]

Originally Posted by Manolón

------

About 80 percent of all inhabitants in Dade speak Spanish and are Hispanic.

Ergo

They are the host, the majority of the inhabitants of the city. The rest, wether from Tuscaloosa or Manheim are visitors, tourists, migrants, snowbirds, whatever.


I suppose the same thing happens in Hawaii with Japanese, in Boston with the Irish, etc.

This is ridiculous. First of all, Miami-Dade is not nearly that "Hispanic" and even though "Hispanics" make up a large share of the population, MANY of them that are raised in Miami prefer to speak English or speak English better than Spanish.

Also, you seem to forget that a large share of people raised in Miami do NOT speak Spanish. They certainly aren't visitors or "migrants" if they grew up there. Miami isn't a Spanish-speaking country; it's in the United States and visitors should reasonably expect that English be spoken to them, without any kind of attitude, pretty much wherever they go. Luckily, this IS the case and only a small minority of people have the attitude that non-Spanish speakers need to learn Spanish.

[MiamiJoe74]

I literally learned Spanish in less than a year by watching TV in Spanish, radio, and getting Spanish subtitles on DVDs and reading Spanish newspapers. People in Miami are either too lazy to learn English, or they simply don't have the intelligence/motivation. Its fine by me. People who only speak Spanish will never reach higher levels of success which almost always demand good English comprehension and speech. I love the fact that most people don't speak good English. My ability to speak both fluently, has gotten me promotion after promotion.

[boxus]

Originally Posted by skibum200

I literally learned Spanish in less than a year by watching TV in Spanish, radio, and getting Spanish subtitles on DVDs and reading Spanish newspapers. People in Miami are either too lazy to learn English, or they simply don't have the intelligence/motivation. Its fine by me. People who only speak Spanish will never reach higher levels of success which almost always demand good English comprehension and speech. I love the fact that most people don't speak good English. My ability to speak both fluently, has gotten me promotion after promotion.

Well, I will admit, it is harder for some people to learn a new language than others, no matter how much they try.

If you read my previous posts, you will see this is not an excuse or reason not to learn, but it for many, it is not as easy as just sitting and watching TV.

There are some people that can go through years of study, only to come out with no more than a 2+ or 3 on proficiency. I have met people who really wanted to get fluency in a language (for work reasons) and just could not, not even after 6 years of college.

Then there are those lucky people who can land anywhere and have a conversation in a new language in just a few days.

In my experience, I have found people who learn languages easily also have an innate ability in skills like music and art, maybe there is a link?

[xS☺B☺s]

Originally Posted by crisp444

For children, it's a different story. School is in English, sports teams/recreational activities are conducted in English, and I have never in my entire life met a child raised in Miami who actually prefers to speak Spanish with his/her friends. I am "weird" because I have a few friends with whom I speak Spanish, but that is so I don't lose my fluency, and of course we speak in English when hanging out with others, even around most people who are bilingual. For most children of Spanish-speaking parents, Spanish is used in the home and English outside of the home, and that really is the best of both worlds because they learn to speak both languages well.

I have a nice time when I run into this cute young Mexican mom at McDonalds. My adopted daughter just fell head over heels in love with her daughter - they play together wonderfully. Mom doesn't speak very good English but is trying to learn. She's from DF which makes her really quite interesting to me, as DF - and everything from Acapulco to Yucatan - tops my list of places I want to go. So while the kids play we chat giving each other language and cultural lessons as we go.

This is the way things should be. Why people harbor animosity toward people with a different language I can't even fathom. I love learning about people from other places. And I equally love showing them what a good American is.

She's a doll, it's a blast, what's not to love?

[Radrook]

Plenty of other towns for whitey to choose

Stereotyping everyone who speaks Spanish as non-white is a display of profound ignorance.

[xS☺B☺s]

Originally Posted by Manolón

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Because Official Languages are considered Absolutist, Jacobinean, Fascist.
The American Constitution is based on the thoughts of French Enciclopedists and Illustration.

I'm not sure I consider official language Fascist. I also highly doubt most folks would rate the French as particularly accommodating to multilingualism. I think they may be one of the few places on the earth who feel they are more high and mighty than Americans, and thus the controversy.

However, I do appreciate the idea of no official language. No official language is an essence of more freedom, and that's good. OTOH, it certainly is not practical.

Just like computers need to agree on a protocol for compatibility, we as humans need a compatible platform to communicate. Meritorious reason exist for preserving multilingualism, but there is is also the need for compatibility. It's sorta like integration versus gentrification. Something of a dilemma certainly.

If I had my way, I would create a second English like e-speec - to clean up the mess of veritably confounding spelling and pronunciation horrors for second language learners. Sorta like Simplified Chinese (I guess). Keep the old for historic purposes and make a newer cleaner version for practicality.

Alles in Wunderland
Alles woz not a bit hert, and shee jumpt up on tu her feet in a moment; shee looct up, but it woz orl darc overhed: befor her woz anuther long passij, and the Wite Rabbet woz stil in site, hurrying doun it. Thair woz not a moment tu bee lost: away went Alles lice the wind, and woz just in time tu heer it say, az it terned a corner, "O mi eers and wiscerz, hou late it's getting!" Shee woz close behinde it wen shee terned the corner, but the rabbet woz no longer tu bee seen. Shee found herself in a long, lo horl, wich woz lit up bi a ro ov lamps hanging from the rufe.

I think the example above still has issues, but it's better.