Are snow tires in MA necessary? (Boston, Worcester: to live, law, to move)

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by 5pyg1a55

**and to others , I don't have a place to store tires, I live in a small apartment. Thanks again

I used to live in a small apartment and I stored the set of tires not in use on my tiny balcony. Pretty much the tires took up all the space

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

I'm sure we've all been there driving in the snow and needing to come to a sudden stop

I mean, ideally in snow you should never need to stop suddenly and should drive keeping that in mind, break with your engine and so on. Driving in manual also helps a lot (at least with the cars I have tried).
But of course if you are in traffic it's kind of impossible not to have to break all the time.

[BostonMike7]

Originally Posted by Lampert

I mean, ideally in snow you should never need to stop suddenly and should drive keeping that in mind, break with your engine and so on.

Usually for me, it's when i'm driving down a road at 15-20MPH and someone from a side street (usually in a truck) decides to pull out in front of me and realized they can't move as fast as they want.

FOr some reason it happens a lot to me.


Worst part about driving in the snow is everyone else.

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

Usually for me, it's when i'm driving down a road at 15-20MPH and someone from a side street (usually in a truck) decides to pull out in front of me and realized they can't move as fast as they want.

FOr some reason it happens a lot to me.


Worst part about driving in the snow is everyone else.

Yeah. Most people don't understand how their car behaves in snow/ice and, even worse, don't understand how other cars behave. For them is always like everyone is driving with a car in perfect condition on a 68, dry, sunny day.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Yep. This.

It's hyperbole and assumes worst case scenarios.

First, I'd never advocate someone run front-only winter on FWD unless they're in a severe pinch (e.g., rent/food + employment over $200-300 worth of additional tires/mounting). This forums relatively high incomes leads some to forget conflate 'perfect' and 'serviceable'.

I've actually run FWD with winters on the front axle and mid-wear quality 'all seasons' on the rear. I did so for the remainder of winter reason when a massive pothole on 93 wiped out two wheels and I had to peg-leg it until replacements were ordered and new tires mounted. While the vehicle did have more oversteer, at no point was the oversteer dangerous. Later grip was fine in both wet and snow conditions.

Why? Because the rear 'all seasons' still evacuated water (i.e., at no point was there zero lateral grip) and under slick snow-covered conditions the relatively fresh winters still slipped inducing understeer, meaning the traction differential was never as bad as someone of these safety videos suggest - the car still 'pushed' as one expects a FWD to do. It was by no means a 'good' setup, but it was certainly more capable than running 'all seasons' front/back like I had the previous winter. If one values drive traction and braking distance, the order of priority is winter/winter > winter/all season > all season>season.

This vid, despite being a warning against what I'm suggesting, shows how 'serviceable' front mounted winters can be. It should be noted that this vehicle was running proper 'summer' tires on the rear which, given their design, will have truly awful evacuation and provide minimal lateral grip. This is common in Europe as OEMs generally do not ship with 'all seasons'. The vehicle represents a 'worst case' in terms of lateral grip, yet the vehicle still looks quite serviceable in objectively terrible conditions. The FWD will still pull the vehicle through a corner with some oversteer correction ... much better than understeering into a snowbank, IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7xXDMkVFlE

These safety vids draw a binary line because idiots and/or desperate people slap fresh 'all seasons' on the drive wheels and run bald tires on the none drive axle. Yeah, that's dangerous and will lead to severe over or understeer depending on whether the vehicle is FWD or RWD.

[G-fused]

Necessary? No. But they are a nice to have and safer than all weather tires.

Most people don't have snow tires. I do for one of my cars, not the other.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by G-fused

Necessary? No. But they are a nice to have and safer than all weather tires.

Most people don't have snow tires. I do for one of my cars, not the other.

"all seasons" are generally fine east of 495 where annual snow falls are lower, air temps higher, and high income town DPWs are eager to exhaust their budgets. This is particularly true for flex office workers who can work from home and/or leave the office early if conditions begin to worsen.

Once one crosses west of 495, where elevation and annual snow fall rise, it becomes 'advisable' to run winter tires regardless of whether your vehicle is AWD. It's also advisable for those living in the metro west who do not have flex jobs, for example an ED RN or critical public services (toxic masculinity is not the sole reason FD/PD lots are full of trucks).

If I lived in southeastern MA I wouldn't bother maintaining/storing two sets of wheels/tires. The local weather is too temperate to see sustained snow covered roads ... particularly with the Atlantic trending way warmer. I don't live in SE MA, however, so my wife and I both drive VW Alltracks with General Altimax Artics ... as bad as our driveway is, the local roads are even worse as they limit salt use within the Wachusett watershed.

[G-fused]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

"all seasons" are generally fine east of 495 where annual snow falls are lower, air temps higher, and high income town DPWs are eager to exhaust their budgets. This is particularly true for flex office workers who can work from home and/or leave the office early if conditions begin to worsen.

Once one crosses west of 495, where elevation and annual snow fall rise, it becomes 'advisable' to run winter tires regardless of whether your vehicle is AWD. It's also advisable for those living in the metro west who do not have flex jobs, for example an ED RN or critical public services (toxic masculinity is not the sole reason FD/PD lots are full of trucks).

If I lived in southeastern MA I wouldn't bother maintaining/storing two sets of wheels/tires. The local weather is too temperate to see sustained snow covered roads ... particularly with the Atlantic trending way warmer. I don't live in SE MA, however, so my wife and I both drive VW Alltracks with General Altimax Artics ... as bad as our driveway is, the local roads are even worse as they limit salt use within the Wachusett watershed.

There are dependencies, including the skill level of the driver. Because of those unknowns, the responsible thing to do is err on the side of caution.

[5pyg1a55]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

It's hyperbole and assumes worst case scenarios.

First, I'd never advocate someone run front-only winter on FWD unless they're in a severe pinch (e.g., rent/food + employment over $200-300 worth of additional tires/mounting). This forums relatively high incomes leads some to forget conflate 'perfect' and 'serviceable'.

I've actually run FWD with winters on the front axle and mid-wear quality 'all seasons' on the rear. I did so for the remainder of winter reason when a massive pothole on 93 wiped out two wheels and I had to peg-leg it until replacements were ordered and new tires mounted. While the vehicle did have more oversteer, at no point was the oversteer dangerous. Later grip was fine in both wet and snow conditions.

Why? Because the rear 'all seasons' still evacuated water (i.e., at no point was there zero lateral grip) and under slick snow-covered conditions the relatively fresh winters still slipped inducing understeer, meaning the traction differential was never as bad as someone of these safety videos suggest - the car still 'pushed' as one expects a FWD to do. It was by no means a 'good' setup, but it was certainly more capable than running 'all seasons' front/back like I had the previous winter. If one values drive traction and braking distance, the order of priority is winter/winter > winter/all season > all season>season.

This vid, despite being a warning against what I'm suggesting, shows how 'serviceable' front mounted winters can be. It should be noted that this vehicle was running proper 'summer' tires on the rear which, given their design, will have truly awful evacuation and provide minimal lateral grip. This is common in Europe as OEMs generally do not ship with 'all seasons'. The vehicle represents a 'worst case' in terms of lateral grip, yet the vehicle still looks quite serviceable in objectively terrible conditions. The FWD will still pull the vehicle through a corner with some oversteer correction ... much better than understeering into a snowbank, IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7xXDMkVFlE

These safety vids draw a binary line because idiots and/or desperate people slap fresh 'all seasons' on the drive wheels and run bald tires on the none drive axle. Yeah, that's dangerous and will lead to severe over or understeer depending on whether the vehicle is FWD or RWD.

The all-seasons currently on the car have good grip in rain- they've got less than 1000 miles driven on them/ they're basically new'ish (I had it shipped here on a large tow, no way was I taking a tired Honda over the Rockies in the winter, so that saved about 3500 miles). The driving I do is basically between Northborough and Marlborough, occasionally to rt 9/ Shrewsbury to access my storage unit or shopping, etc. IDK how well these towns do with snow removal, but guess fairly well. The street I live on has a high school and a lot of industrial complexes (tractor trailers driving down the road all day & night).

A friend of mine in NH who tinkers with cars as a hobby said I did not need snow tires.

Sudden stops make me a bit nervous- I'm still in CA mode driving here, leaving 4-5 car lengths from the driver in front of me, while someone behind me is so close tailgating if I had to stop suddenly, they would probably hit from behind. Also the folks who pull out in front of you quickly and cause you to break abruptly are worrisome.

[5pyg1a55]

@Shrewsburried, wow that video is brilliant.
It's doubtful I'll be driving on actual white-covered streets, save maybe pulling out of the driveway. Probably in slush, though.
One thing that I just thought of was 'black ice'- I've forgotten how to identify it and how to drive on it.