The Near Future (find a job, minimum wage, moving)

[RememberMee]

Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America by Barbara Ehrenreich


It's a really good read. The authors "transplanted" herself to a few cities across the States to see if she could make it on minimum wage there while preserving some measure of health & dignity. She's got a chapter on Maine. She didn't make it on minimum wage (cleaning) jobs in Maine. One could elk out a meager existence on minimum wage jobs (while master minding that classic rag to riches story of yours) if not for predatory housing slum market. Without a job, you can't get an affordable, half-decent housing, astronomically priced slum market is the only your option. Even if you'll secure a dream minimum wage job, you will not dig yourself out of the slums without help of your savings and/or relatives & friends. And you cannot afford slums on minimum wage for too long. But you can try and write something like "Getting By in America or Surprising Story of a Dish Washer Proving Barbara Ehrenreich Wrong".

[Evan_Lanctot]

This was in Portland, though. Things could be different elsewhere in the state.

[8635angelvalley]

This is an excellent book,I agree. There are other jobs in Maine beside minimum wage jobs I don't know why everyone is focusing on living on min wage. It can't be done anywhere!This is no shattering news.
Gator Mama let me know if I can help you out.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by 8635angelvalley

... There are other jobs in Maine beside minimum wage jobs I don't know why everyone is focusing on living on min wage. It can't be done anywhere!This is no shattering news. ...

That is the point.

It does seem to be shattering news to many.

You are correct in saying "It can't be done anywhere".

In many places of the US you can not support a family on minimum wage.

The few places where it is possible, are very enticing to retirees.

[8635angelvalley]

It won't support a single person either.

[OutDoorNut]

Originally Posted by RememberMee

Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America by Barbara Ehrenreich


It's a really good read. The authors "transplanted" herself to a few cities across the States to see if she could make it on minimum wage there while preserving some measure of health & dignity. She's got a chapter on Maine. She didn't make it on minimum wage (cleaning) jobs in Maine. One could elk out a meager existence on minimum wage jobs (while master minding that classic rag to riches story of yours) if not for predatory housing slum market. Without a job, you can't get an affordable, half-decent housing, astronomically priced slum market is the only your option. Even if you'll secure a dream minimum wage job, you will not dig yourself out of the slums without help of your savings and/or relatives & friends. And you cannot afford slums on minimum wage for too long. But you can try and write something like "Getting By in America or Surprising Story of a Dish Washer Proving Barbara Ehrenreich Wrong".

I heard her being interviewed on NPR when that book came out a few years back.

Do you remember which, if any states, she was able to support herself earning a minimum wage?

[mainebrokerman]

Originally Posted by 8635angelvalley

This is an excellent book,I agree. There are other jobs in Maine beside minimum wage jobs I don't know why everyone is focusing on living on min wage. It can't be done anywhere!This is no shattering news.
Gator Mama let me know if I can help you out.

good point, minimum wage should be called starting wage, based on merit and performance, you move up the ladder

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by 8635angelvalley

It won't support a single person either.

In some places yes.

Some places even a single person can not support him/herself while working f/t on minimum-wage.

And in other places a person can support an entire family on minimum-wage.

There are many factors.

[Zymer]

Originally Posted by RememberMee

It's a really good read. The authors "transplanted" herself to a few cities across the States to see if she could make it on minimum wage there while preserving some measure of health & dignity. She's got a chapter on Maine. She didn't make it on minimum wage (cleaning) jobs in Maine. One could elk out a meager existence on minimum wage jobs (while master minding that classic rag to riches story of yours) if not for predatory housing slum market. Without a job, you can't get an affordable, half-decent housing, astronomically priced slum market is the only your option. Even if you'll secure a dream minimum wage job, you will not dig yourself out of the slums without help of your savings and/or relatives & friends. And you cannot afford slums on minimum wage for too long. But you can try and write something like "Getting By in America or Surprising Story of a Dish Washer Proving Barbara Ehrenreich Wrong".

Where is it written that anyone is *supposed* to be able to 'get by' on a minimum wage job?

I don't see anything like that in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution. I don't see anything in either of those documents that says that a 40hr/wk, minimum wage job is supposed to get you some particular standard of living.

The notion that anyone is entitled to a particular standard of living, regardless of the employment he or she chooses, smells a lot like Communism to me.

The public education system was instituted in order to provide a base of minimum knowledge of reading, writing and 'rithmatic. Once a person has acquired those skills he or she has sufficient knowledge to advance his or her learning *IF* he or she is willing to put forth the effort to do so.

People are provided with the *opportunity* to advance themselves, to acquire additional knowledge and skills that will enable them to earn a higher rate of pay and a higher standard of living *IF* they choose to do so.

In the past, families/friends banded together to share expenses and work to support themselves, individuals who chose to strike out on their own to 'make their fortune' were responsible for their own welfare (in the classic sense of the word, not the currently expected entitlement supported by the taxpayers).

I have had more than one argument with individuals dissatisfied with their own situation, who were berating foreigners running their own businesses and doing very well, claiming that those foreigners had advantages that the citizens did not, that they were *given* money or businesses out-of-hand by the 'government'.

The truth of these situations is that they band together, working whatever jobs they can get, sharing expenses and pooling their money until they can afford to start a business of their own or buy a franchise. They see the *opportunity* that is available here and bust their butts to take advantage of it.

Some years ago I worked with a guy from Korea, at a job that paid less than minimum wage (the employer got around the law by claiming that we got 'tips', which we did not). He lived with about 15 others in a small apartment- a condition which many people here would call overcrowded but which, for them, was relative luxury. They pooled their money to start a business franchise and did very well for themselves.

If you want what successful people have, then you have to do what successful people do. You have the *opportunity* available (which is all you have the 'right' to ask for) to better yourself. The fruit is on the tree but if you want the best, then you have to get up off your fanny and climb the tree to get it. If you sit around waiting for a windfall, then you are going to have to take the bruised or rotten fruit, you've no right to expect someone else to climb the tree *for* you and give you a portion of what they pick.

[chaosX5]

Originally Posted by Zymer

Where is it written that anyone is *supposed* to be able to 'get by' on a minimum wage job?

I don't see anything like that in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution. I don't see anything in either of those documents that says that a 40hr/wk, minimum wage job is supposed to get you some particular standard of living.

The notion that anyone is entitled to a particular standard of living, regardless of the employment he or she chooses, smells a lot like Communism to me.

The public education system was instituted in order to provide a base of minimum knowledge of reading, writing and 'rithmatic. Once a person has acquired those skills he or she has sufficient knowledge to advance his or her learning *IF* he or she is willing to put forth the effort to do so.

People are provided with the *opportunity* to advance themselves, to acquire additional knowledge and skills that will enable them to earn a higher rate of pay and a higher standard of living *IF* they choose to do so.

In the past, families/friends banded together to share expenses and work to support themselves, individuals who chose to strike out on their own to 'make their fortune' were responsible for their own welfare (in the classic sense of the word, not the currently expected entitlement supported by the taxpayers).

I have had more than one argument with individuals dissatisfied with their own situation, who were berating foreigners running their own businesses and doing very well, claiming that those foreigners had advantages that the citizens did not, that they were *given* money or businesses out-of-hand by the 'government'.

The truth of these situations is that they band together, working whatever jobs they can get, sharing expenses and pooling their money until they can afford to start a business of their own or buy a franchise. They see the *opportunity* that is available here and bust their butts to take advantage of it.

Some years ago I worked with a guy from Korea, at a job that paid less than minimum wage (the employer got around the law by claiming that we got 'tips', which we did not). He lived with about 15 others in a small apartment- a condition which many people here would call overcrowded but which, for them, was relative luxury. They pooled their money to start a business franchise and did very well for themselves.

If you want what successful people have, then you have to do what successful people do. You have the *opportunity* available (which is all you have the 'right' to ask for) to better yourself. The fruit is on the tree but if you want the best, then you have to get up off your fanny and climb the tree to get it. If you sit around waiting for a windfall, then you are going to have to take the bruised or rotten fruit, you've no right to expect someone else to climb the tree *for* you and give you a portion of what they pick.

Applause! More applause

There was so much about this I really agree with, but I had to pick one part in particular.........it reminds me of the principle of subsidiarity..

Subsidiarity is an organizing principle that matters ought to be handled by the smallest, lowest or least centralized competent authority. Political decisions should be taken at a local level if possible, rather than by a central authority. [1] The Oxford English Dictionary defines subsidiarity as the idea that a central authority should have a subsidiary function, performing only those tasks which cannot be performed effectively at a more immediate or local level.

Minium wage is a starting point and no more, and some could argue that it shouldn't exist to begin with. A person takes a minium wage job, never strives to do any better and then goes on government assistance to make up the difference and it's considered acceptable by many. When a community took care of each other many would have worked much harder rather than take the charity of family and friends. When it's the faceless government it's OK because it's "government money" (which is in actuality MY money!......and everyone who pays taxes, really)

When immigrants come to this country from much poorer countries they are not used to a Federal Government taking care of them, they do it themselves with help from family and friends and lot's of hard work. Those that do this never stop to think about whether minium wage will be able to support them and their families. They have much higher aspirations.......