Maine Most Welfare Dependent State (daycare, find a job, buying)

[Nor'Eastah]

Originally Posted by broadbill

What a surprise: A conservative think tank decides to call out Maine as the most welfare-dependent state when we are weeks away from a guberanatorial elections where we have a conservative candidate (LePage) running on a platform of of welfare reform. Must be a coincidence, right?

Don't think so!

I would've thought Rhode Island or Massachusetts would top the list, but I guess Maine is pretty liberal in its voting habits, as well.

Too bad. I will have lived my entire life in blue states. I doubt if anybody even gives that a second thought. Instead of Maine, maybe I should move to Texas???

Nope, scratch that. Too hot there. Maine has the right temperatures for me. To heck with the welfare stuff...I'm not interested in it anyway!

[broadbill]

Originally Posted by bangorme

Well, this doesn't mean they are aren't impartial, or without a perspective.

FTFW



Didn't say they might not be right in their assessment. I just pointing this out because I've heard some of the more conservative folks around here use a similar argument to criticize something that's been reported in one of those lefty, moon-bat news agencies they like to not read (e.g. MSNBC, CNN, NPR, etc)

[maineguy8888]

Originally Posted by Zymer

Tax "breaks"?

Hmmmmmph. C got her PTIN and started doing tax returns professionally last year. The "breaks", in some cases, really amount to another form of welfare that doesn't show in the stats.

I get really ticked off when she tells me about people who are "getting back" far more than they paid in. It's one thing to have an income that's low and get your deductions returned, but getting a return that exceeds the deductions is another form of "wealth redistribution"...except that there are a lot of us who aren't wealthy by any measure who are paying to support this.

I (and my wife) totally agree with you on this. They are pandering for votes from people when they try to give them back extra money, via the tax system.

[BrokenTap]

Originally Posted by maineguy8888

In my own personal view (developed over the years), welfare is different from tax breaks, or many government programs for farmers. Welfare is usually given to people who don't have a business that employs people (although that happens on rare occasion).

I wanted to make sure we are on the same page with this. When I refer to 70% of the Farm Bill going to welfare, I mean 70% goes to food stamps, WIC, and forms of welfare. I was not using some farming subsidies loosely as in "farm welfare", oh no, the lame and lazy get paid straight from monies intended for farmers, or at least via the bill's title!!

[cebdark]

Originally Posted by maineguy8888

I (and my wife) totally agree with you on this. They are pandering for votes from people when they try to give them back extra money, via the tax system.

I don't agree that it's right either, but let's not forget that this is done by megacorporations all the time. Not that this is any excuse; however, oftentimes they threaten to pull jobs out of an area, so they are given "incentives" to stay - largely in the form of tax breaks while the majority of their profits are shipped out-of-state to wherever their corporate office is. Those jobs are frequently part-time, low paying, and offer no benefits; therefore, it stands to reason that welfare will be applied for and used (but gee whiz - we should be thankful we've got them because at least it's a job!) <sarcasm filter OFF>.

When the municipal and school budgets come out, all of those however well-intentioned "unfunded mandates" have to be paid for somehow on top of what is already paid for in terms of welfare benefits. Homeowners see their property tax bills go up.

Yet another reason to support local business as much as humanly possible IMHO. Most small businesses help their employees as much as they can when they can for their loyal employees - IF they aren't STRANGLED with foolhardy rules, laws, and paperwork. The same cannot be said for most chain stores. They seem to enjoy a "Teflon Don" sort of regulation, and dodging of the tax bullet.

I had to interview and hire people during one of my 9 - 5 stints in the early 90s. I took an application from a woman who left a local chain because she quote: "was working for unfair wages for the job level." She worked there in the mid to late 1980s, so I don't recall what the minimum was, but she was the assitant manager, and wasn't even breaking much over $5.00 an hour for an Assistant Manager position.

We hired her, and she turned out to be one of the most dedicated and hardest working employees we had at the time. She stayed for a very long time because she was valued and paid decently. She was also offered health insurance (she paid a reasonable portion of the premium for out of her weekly paycheck btw) which was important to her as a single mother. She didn't need medicaid. She paid her own way and preferred it.

There are many people in this situation now - only now, they don't have something as simple as even the option to buy into any insurance plan. Either they can't afford to (or more often than not) it's not even offered in order to save costs for the business.

These people simply do not get press. It doesn't generate enough "controversy." It's the couch surfers who get it all (and yes, I think they should have to do something to incent them to get off it btw). Plain and simple.

[Zarathu]

Originally Posted by reloop

There are many people in this situation now - only now, they don't have something as simple as even the option to buy into any insurance plan. Either they can't afford to (or more often than not) it's not even offered in order to save costs for the business.

These people simply do not get press. It doesn't generate enough "controversy." It's the couch surfers who get it all (and yes, I think they should have to do something to incent them to get off it btw). Plain and simple.

I don't begrudge that people who serve voluntarily in the armed forces and do a great deed while there are heros. Altho, I'm not sure that everyone who comes back alive makes them a hero. But I needed to explain this minor side point before I make the main point.

The Main Point: As long as the only heros that we grandify are the ones who are military and police, we will continue to have a militaristic, angry and aggressive society---which is a fair accounting of America.

When we start makeing HEROs of the person that Reloop described above, when we make heros of people like teachers who slug away in the classrooms teaching and helping thousands of our offspring for 35 or 40 years, When we make hero notations for people who take care of our society, fix our cars, and pick up our garbage, because they did this for US for 35-50 years, then we will have a true appreciation of WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A HERO.

I don't begrudge those people who in a moment of decision give their lives for others on a street or in a battlefield.

But I do begrudge a society that doesn't consider those who toil on and on and on in helping jobs, with not just a moment of decision but with 8000 days of decision to help over their entire lifetime. These people should be given hero badges too.

Zarathu

[mainebrokerman]

Originally Posted by Zarathu

I don't begrudge that people who serve voluntarily in the armed forces and do a great deed while there are heros. Altho, I'm not sure that everyone who comes back alive makes them a hero. But I needed to explain this minor side point before I make the main point.

The Main Point: As long as the only heros that we grandify are the ones who are military and police, we will continue to have a militaristic, angry and aggressive society---which is a fair accounting of America.

When we start makeing HEROs of the person that Reloop described above, when we make heros of people like teachers who slug away in the classrooms teaching and helping thousands of our offspring for 35 or 40 years, When we make hero notations for people who take care of our society, fix our cars, and pick up our garbage, because they did this for US for 35-50 years, then we will have a true appreciation of WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A HERO.

I don't begrudge those people who in a moment of decision give their lives for others on a street or in a battlefield.

But I do begrudge a society that doesn't consider those who toil on and on and on in helping jobs, with not just a moment of decision but with 8000 days of decision to help over their entire lifetime. These people should be given hero badges too.

Zarathu

While there are many "mentors" and good folks in the community, I still believe the military or vets, get the honor or heroism- if i have a bad day- im stressed and frustrated, if someone in the military has a bad day, they could lose an eye, leg or die, or , they see their best buddy get blown to shreds they put themselves on the front lines protecting folks like me.

when i wake in the morning, like most folks in maine, im not thinking there is a chance of a sniper hitting me, or my vehicle will be blown up
for that. i thank the military who put thier lives on the line, so i dont have to

[mainegrl2011]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the non U.S. citizens who come to the U.S. to give birth so that their child will be a U.S. citizen and then subsequently collect assistance benefits from the state (whatever state they happen to be in).

Does anyone really believe that those in government in a socialist society would be content with being financially equal with everyone else in the country?

Is there anyone out there who approves of working a full-time job and giving up a portion of their earned pay to take care of those who refuse to work and find it more acceptable and/or convenient to live off a state? just curious....

[Zarathu]

Originally Posted by mainebrokerman

While there are many "mentors" and good folks in the community, I still believe the military or vets, get the honor or heroism- if i have a bad day- im stressed and frustrated, if someone in the military has a bad day, they could lose an eye, leg or die, or , they see their best buddy get blown to shreds they put themselves on the front lines protecting folks like me.

when i wake in the morning, like most folks in maine, im not thinking there is a chance of a sniper hitting me, or my vehicle will be blown up
for that. i thank the military who put thier lives on the line, so i dont have to

I didn't begrudge this. I never said that we should not just them as heros.

I did say that just coming back doesn't make one a hero. I have many friends from Vietnam who never went near a battlefield and some who never left the states, and some who are much younger than myself who were in Iraq and also never went near any fighting.

I'm just saying that heros who work steadily at jobs that help large numbers of people for a very very long time, very rarely are ever honored in OUR SOCIETY as being heros. This is a sacrilage that only those who do this helping work for a very very long time understand. I'm saying that if we don't wish to have a society that has endless murders, and constant violence, we must also show respect for the every day person who toils for a whole lifetime helping others as a hero. We don't do this. We only hero-ize those who got their hero ship by being involved in a violent occupation or doing a violent life threatening thing. This gives a certain message to our youth that we may not really mean.

We must have both in our society, and we don't. And there are consequences for our society for this.

Just my opinion.

[Zarathu]

Originally Posted by mainegrl2011

Is there anyone out there who approves of working a full-time job and giving up a portion of their earned pay to take care of those who refuse to work and find it more acceptable and/or convenient to live off a state? just curious....

Of course not. Who would realistically want that?

But.... if we carry the reasoning a bit further, what exactly are we suggesting that we do with these people who refuse to work? Do they become the traveling hobos of the 30's. Do we put them in jail? Do we put them to work at our expense.

What I want to hear about is the solution to the problem, not just the complaining that it is there.