Why do whites move away so often when other races move in? (Burbank: rent, houses)

[Frank.O´Hara]

Hi there,
this topic might be a bit ridiculous but I hope you will understand me. I have never been to the USA, I´m a white european but I´m planning to move to USA very soon. I just love your country, your architecture and that I could enjoy travelling through deserts in Nevada or visit old plantations in the South. I have read a lot of threads here and I was in a daily contact with american boy of my age for 3 years. I´m interested mainly in LA, Dallas and Atlanta.

However, I learned some informations that were shocking for me and I just need to know your thoughts about that. The most shocking information was the "white flight" thing. For example Atlanta. When blacks moved in (in the 60´s), whites moved out to suburbs and to northern parts of the city. Today, all southern suburbs are mostly black, but blacks still keep moving even far down to south where whites live, and when they move in - whites move out and the previously middle class neighbourhood becomes rundown. I even heard a man saying: "They (blacks) are marching through the main street and nobody´s safe."

Well, I thought LA could be a bit better, but then I read a thread called "where did the walley girls go?" and some people said that whites are moving away from CA because of increasing number of hispanics.

This really makes me feel miserable. I wanted to ask you some questions:

1) are hispanic people in the USA really that bad or is it just the ignorance of whites?

2) If I didn´t care about the demographics and moved to a minority majority neighbourhood (like Whittier for example) - would this be OK for me? No hate just because I´m white?

3) Are really so many whites leaving SoCA to Oregon, Arizona, Nevada...etc? If yes, I think California might become more Mexico than USA and that wouldn´t be cool in my opinion.

Just to let you know, I hope this won´t cause any racism here. My last sentence was a bit strong but I meant it like I want to live in the USA, not in the Mexico - and I have really nothing against mexican people. I met a latino girl here in EU and she was so fantastic. She was very kind and intelligent. And I also had a black friend, who was also pretty inteligent and nice. We could talk for hours and hours.
Anyways, I really hope I didn´t insult anybody since I love people of all races from my heart. Also, I hope you´ll excuse my english. I´m just a bit worried about the things I found out and I thought that only native americans could help me...

[JohnG72]

Blacks in the US cause a disproportionate amount of crime.

With Latinos, I think it's more that the schools tend to go to crap. Not cause of the second and third generation Latinos, but bec ause whenever an area starts to really attract a lot of middle and upper class Latinos, it also attrracts a lot of non English speaking more recent immigrants

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by Frank.O´Hara

1) are hispanic people in the USA really that bad or is it just the ignorance of whites?

Some people just don't want to get along. Happens anywhere, really.

[BRinSM]

i can't speak to the racism behind the white flight of the 1960s as I wasn't born, but I do have more experience with current trends in LA. Generally speaking, people in LA get along pretty well. However, when we're talking about people's children, it's a completely different story. as someone else mentioned, as hispanic populations grow in certain neighborhoods, testing scores at the locals schools tend to drop. I'm sure there are sociological reasons for this, but I don't want to speculate. Anyways, if test scores drop, history has shown that white people move off to new communities on the fringe of the metropolis to places with better schools that happen to have mostly other white people. However, now that there's not much more building going on in CA (for a number of different reasons) and non-white people are moving in to these distant bedroom communities, white people are moving to other states that have more white people and better schools. While it's unfortunate that this white flight has led to urban blight in many areas of LA, I also understand the reasons for this in today's competitive job market. Generally speaking, kids that go to better schools, get accepted into better colleges and get higher paying jobs.

[majoun]

Originally Posted by BRinSM

i can't speak to the racism behind the white flight of the 1960s as I wasn't born, but I do have more experience with current trends in LA. Generally speaking, people in LA get along pretty well. However, when we're talking about people's children, it's a completely different story. as someone else mentioned, as hispanic populations grow in certain neighborhoods, testing scores at the locals schools tend to drop.

Non-Hispanic whites also have been known to move out of neighborhoods when too many Asians come in, and Asians don't have a reputation for making testing scores drop. So obviously some whites are threatened by any group different from their own and are nothing more than scared bigots even if they don't want to admit it.

Also, LAUSD comprehensive schools tend to resemble each other demographically more than they resemble the neighborhoods they are in. For example, Webster Middle School which I attended many, many years ago is only 3 percent non-Hispanic white - which does not reflect the demographics of West LA and Mar Vista at all. Likewise Uni's only something like 7 percent non-Hispanic white - not reflective of West LA/Brentwood/Westwood/etc. demographics at all. There is no link between school and neighborhood in LAUSD anymore.

One thing I've noticed about L.A.: non-Hispanic whites are less likely to leave neighborhoods when other groups move in if those neighborhoods aren't in LAUSD and aren't part of the city of L.A. Mainly because non-LAUSD districts tend to preserve standards regardless of race/ethnicity more often than not. For this reason there are non-Hispanic whites in Silver Lake who move to Burbank once their kids get to middle school age (I've observed this often enough to notice a pattern) because of Burbank's excellent schools. (Perhaps this is also true of some Latinos and Asians in Silver Lake as well) Burbank unlike neighboring Valley neighborhoods within the city of L.A. has held on to its non-Hispanic, non-Armenian white population, including families,because of the schools. OTOH, there aren't many non-Hispanic, non-Armenian white kids in North Hollywood next door - because North Hollywood is part of the city of LA and LAUSD, and has typical LAUSD crap schools. If it was its own city, it would almost certainly have more non-Hispanic and non-Armenian white families - probably not on the level that it did 20 years ago (let alone 30 years ago or more) but its demographics would be different.

The schools issue contributes to "family flight" which by now is more than just a white thing. The 2010 census showed the number of minors dropping in L.A. across racial/ethnic lines. L.A. County was the only county in the whole nation which had a drop in the number of "minority children" (as well as a drop in the number of "white children") between 2000 and 2010. Families are leaving not just the city but even the county.

Urban blight spreads more in areas that are less attractive to people without kids, and spreads less in areas more hospitable to people without children ; hence, West Hollywood and the Fairfax District have not gone down the drain due to the LAUSD schools being crap. Nor has West L.A.

[majoun]

Originally Posted by bigdumbgod

Some people just don't want to get along. Happens anywhere, really.

Wholeheartedly agreed. And those people who don't want to get along are a big part of the problem.

[BRinSM]

Originally Posted by majoun

Also, LAUSD comprehensive schools tend to resemble each other demographically more than they resemble the neighborhoods they are in. For example, Webster Middle School which I attended many, many years ago is only 3 percent non-Hispanic white - which does not reflect the demographics of West LA and Mar Vista at all. Likewise Uni's only something like 7 percent non-Hispanic white - not reflective of West LA/Brentwood/Westwood/etc. demographics at all. There is no link between school and neighborhood in LAUSD anymore.

Intra-distric bussing helped catalyze this demographic shift that you mentioned, but it doesn't always hold true. Just take a look at the demographics at Wonderland Ave, Ivanhoe and Roscomare Rd schools, nearly all white kids.

[odannyboi]

This is common everywhere. Whites tend to want more bang for your buck when it comes to schools, COL, and houses. The only whites that really move into (or want to move into) So Calif these days are young and unattached (I was/still am an LA hopeful.. but if I do move there I know it will be for only a few years, especially If I ever wanted to start a fam). Anytime I mention that I want to move to Calif. to an older person or a person with a family the response is always "Its too expensive to live there."

Many of the whites leaving So Calif are families looking for better schools for their kids (and they could get MUCH more property and lower cost of living elsewhere). I've been seeing quite a bit of cars with California plates in the Chicago area in the past year or so. I dunno.

I don't want to sound mean but alot of the mexican immigrants that move into So Calif tend to live like sardines in not so good areas (much like Chicago). There will be like 2 families in 1 small house.

West LA is and will pretty much always be majority white... the high property values and rent rates will ensure this. Unless the hispanic population becomes more affluent (which is happening slowly).

In my experience, don't read too much into racial moving patterns and don't let it be the be all end all to your decision to move there. I went to Atlanta last year and it has a large black population, but it wasn't bad or anything. ATL was pretty nice (although I wouldn't want to live there). I went to LA recently too and stayed mostly in the West LA portions (Santa Monica, Marina Del Ray, etc and didn't see that many hispanics and was actually surprised. If you want to experience LA, ATL, or Dallas go for it. Or atleast visit and make a judgment for yourself.

[majoun]

Originally Posted by BRinSM

Intra-distric bussing helped catalyze this demographic shift that you mentioned, but it doesn't always hold true. Just take a look at the demographics at Wonderland Ave, Ivanhoe and Roscomare Rd schools, nearly all white kids.

Elementary schools. Ivanhoe and Wonderland in particular are highly sought out elementary schools. Don't know about Roscomare Road today although I know where it is.

How many Ivanhoe kids go on to King Middle School? How many kids from Roscomare go on to Emerson? How many kids from Wonderland go on to Bancroft? Very few (nowadays).

[majoun]

Originally Posted by odannyboi

I went to LA recently too and stayed mostly in the West LA portions (Santa Monica, Marina Del Ray, etc and didn't see that many hispanics and was actually surprised. If you want to experience LA, ATL, or Dallas go for it. Or atleast visit and make a judgment for yourself.

Since you're not from L.A. you don't know this, but Santa Monica has its own school district and is not part of LAUSD. Thus its schools are not only better but reflect its demographics more. Santa Monica is overwhelmingly non-Hispanic white except for the Pico Neighborhood which is overwhelmingly Hispanic (and has been for decades, even when Robert Redford was growing up there). It's the last place on the westside with plenty of families.