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Prof Bent Flyvbjerg, of Oxford University's Said Business School, is an expert on the management of megaprojects.
He says that once built, most high-speed rail lines often go on to lose money. ”It's a type of infrastructure that's already highly dependent on subsidies,” says Prof Flyvbjerg.
He said there are only a few examples of high-speed rail networks that turn a profit, due to a rare combination of passenger numbers and distance.
For example, most of the companies that run Japan’s Shinkansen or ”bullet train” lines operate at a profit, as do some fast trains on France’s state-owned SNCF network.
“It only makes sense in high-density areas, and it only makes sense over distances of under 800km,” says Prof Flyvbjerg.
Prof Bent Flyvbjerg, of Oxford University's Said Business School, is an expert on the management of megaprojects.
He says that once built, most high-speed rail lines often go on to lose money. ”It's a type of infrastructure that's already highly dependent on subsidies,” says Prof Flyvbjerg.
He said there are only a few examples of high-speed rail networks that turn a profit, due to a rare combination of passenger numbers and distance.
For example, most of the companies that run Japan’s Shinkansen or ”bullet train” lines operate at a profit, as do some fast trains on France’s state-owned SNCF network.
“It only makes sense in high-density areas, and it only makes sense over distances of under 800km,” says Prof Flyvbjerg.
Sweet spot for true HSR has always been between 300 and bit over 400 mile distance.
Thing to remember is rail passenger service rarely makes money thus always needs some sort of subsidy. This was true back in the day railroads and still is true today. All those fancy passenger trains like "20th Century Limited" were glamorous and so forth, but freight pays the bills.
Federal government forcing railroads to offer and keep passenger service is largely what drove many of them out of business. When dust settled railroads like Union Pacific and rest were happy to get rid of passenger service, hence creation of Amtrak.
Keep in mind much of Europe never lost their love for passenger rail.
Post WWII while American railroads were getting rid of passenger service, ripping up ROW and focus overall was the automobile, in Europe governments were spending big on rebuilding and expanding rail service.
Virtually all the early technology for HSR came from United States. European companies bought or licensed technology developed by or for American railroads or and ran with it. Results are what we see today in France, Germany and elsewhere.
Proof of love Europeans have for rail is overall where HSR routes were opened air travel passenger numbers fell. This often to point air routes were abandoned. In USA however reverse is true; once jets made it possible to get from Chicago, IL to San Francisco or Los Angeles, CA in three hours instead of days; long distance rail was doomed.
I was in Sofia, Bulgaria over Christmas and the subway there is so clean you can eat off the floor. It's beautiful. Expanding constantly. Quiet, respectful and well dressed people on the ride. And they have guard rails on the platforms preventing blacks from pushing old Asian women onto the tracks if one were to try.
Came back to this crap hole and heard the announcement about this garbage train being some huge accomplishment.
Eastern Europe is better than LI and NY in many respects.
15 yr old bullet train in Japan is far superior than the LIRR to Grand Central. People don't realize NY is 3rd world compared to many places.
Wow, it's been a long time since I took LIRR but interesting to see they still have the ancient monitors and you have to wait until few minutes before your train departs to see which platform it will depart from. This day and age they still can't figure this out and you see rush of people go down to the platform and the whole place feels like 1970s. With this pace, they'll probably complete renovations at Penn Station in 10 years?
Proof of love Europeans have for rail is overall where HSR routes were opened air travel passenger numbers fell. This often to point air routes were abandoned. In USA however reverse is true; once jets made it possible to get from Chicago, IL to San Francisco or Los Angeles, CA in three hours instead of days; long distance rail was doomed.
Distances are greater between San Fransisco and Chicago than between Normandy and Nice. Keep that in mind.
Also when security concerns began gelling up air travel the discrepancy widened. It's intra-Europe air travel that in many cases is impractical.
I was in Sofia, Bulgaria over Christmas and the subway there is so clean you can eat off the floor. It's beautiful. Expanding constantly. Quiet, respectful and well dressed people on the ride. And they have guard rails on the platforms preventing blacks from pushing old Asian women onto the tracks if one were to try.
Came back to this crap hole and heard the announcement about this garbage train being some huge accomplishment.
Eastern Europe is better than LI and NY in many respects.
15 yr old bullet train in Japan is far superior than the LIRR to Grand Central. People don't realize NY is 3rd world compared to many places.
I’ve ridden the bullet train to Tokyo from Narita a few times. It was pretty amazing. Super clean, fast quiet. Even the food was good. The LIRR and MTA is a slum in comparison
Wow, it's been a long time since I took LIRR but interesting to see they still have the ancient monitors and you have to wait until few minutes before your train departs to see which platform it will depart from. This day and age they still can't figure this out and you see rush of people go down to the platform and the whole place feels like 1970s. With this pace, they'll probably complete renovations at Penn Station in 10 years?
They will never change that. It’s to prevent hundreds of people from crowding on the platforms before the train arrives.
I’ve ridden the bullet train to Tokyo from Narita a few times. It was pretty amazing. Super clean, fast quiet. Even the food was good. The LIRR and MTA is a slum in comparison
Wow, it's been a long time since I took LIRR but interesting to see they still have the ancient monitors and you have to wait until few minutes before your train departs to see which platform it will depart from. This day and age they still can't figure this out and you see rush of people go down to the platform and the whole place feels like 1970s. With this pace, they'll probably complete renovations at Penn Station in 10 years?
Quote:
Originally Posted by peconic117
They will never change that. It’s to prevent hundreds of people from crowding on the platforms before the train arrives.
Its also because theres always the chance of a last min change. too many RRs, too many trains at penn at rush. one off thing from NJT or Amtrak can F up LIRR and vice versa
Is there any place to grab a beer down in that cavern? Either sit-down(bar) or grab a roadie?
Maggie’s and Connolys bar is on 48th. I’m sure more are around. Then there are spots inside grand central if you have to.
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