TV antenna in Lehigh Valley (Philadelphia, Allentown: lawyers, houses, neighborhood)

[PacoMartin]

The 12 Philadelphia Stations are broadcast out of a forest of TV towers in the Roxborough neighborhood, off of Schulykill Expressway in Northern Philadelphia (33 miles from Coopersburg).

The FCC maps say that in much of the Lehigh Valley the broadcast signal is weak to non-existent from most of these Philadelphia stations. In particular South Mountain seems to be a big problem. The stations are listed in order of coverage, although in many cases the distinction is minor.

Does anyone use antennas to get their TV? Do you have a lot of trouble? What kind of antenna do you have and where is it mounted? I read that less than 10% of homes use antennas today.

FCC Predictions for Coopersburg (33 miles)
Moderate Signal WPVI ABC 6-1 Lo-V
Moderate Signal KYW CBS 3-1 UHF
Weak Signal WCAU NBC 10-1 UHF
Weak Signal WUVP UNIVISION 65-1 UHF
Weak Signal WPHL MYTV 17-1 UHF
Weak Signal WYBE ETV 35-1 UHF
Weak Signal WPPX ION 61-1 UHF
Weak Signal WHYY PBS 12-1 Hi-V
Weak Signal WTXF FOX 29-1 UHF
Weak Signal WTVE IND 51-1 UHF
Weak Signal WGTW TBN 48-1 UHF
No Signal WPSG CW 57-1 UHF

I am skeptical of the FCC predictions. The prediction for Quakertown is so much better than Coopersburg, yet these two towns are only 5-6 miles apart and there are not really significant hills between them.

FCC Predictions for Quakertown (27 miles)
Strong Signal WPVI ABC 6-1 Lo-V
Strong Signal KYW CBS 3-1 UHF
Strong Signal WCAU NBC 10-1 UHF
Strong Signal WUVP UNIVISION 65-1 UHF
Strong Signal WPHL MYTV 17-1 UHF
Moderate Signal WYBE ETV 35-1 UHF
Moderate Signal WHYY PBS 12-1 Hi-V
Moderate Signal WPPX ION 61-1 UHF
Moderate Signal WTXF FOX 29-1 UHF
Moderate Signal WTVE IND 51-1 UHF
Moderate Signal WGTW TBN 48-1 UHF
Moderate Signal WPSG CW 57-1 UHF

[MatildaLoo]

I don't personally have a TV antenna but I've seen some on houses, particularly along 248 near Moore Township/Bath.

I don't know if these would be too far north to get Philly stations anyway, though, even without South Mountain being (eventually) a barrier.

[flyonpa]

AntennaWeb - Home will let you plot / check to see what you can pull in. I did my old address in bethlehem Twp. And all it said i could get was WFMZ, & WLVT

[toobusytoday]

We used to have an antenna IN our attic. Actually, I'm sure it's still there but we don't use it anymore. We were able to get about a dozen channels, some better then others. I think my husband got it at Radio Shack. We got the main Philly channels ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, and channel 12. We also got some NYC channels.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by MatildaLoo

I don't personally have a TV antenna but I've seen some on houses, particularly along 248 near Moore Township/Bath.

I don't know if these would be too far north to get Philly stations anyway, though, even without South Mountain being (eventually) a barrier.

Simple distance is not normally an issue. The antenna towers are usually over 1000' tall or they are on a 2000' mountain and 800' or 1000' tall. At sea a 1000' tower has a straight line view of almost 100 miles. The issue on land is what terrain or buildings are in your way.

Most of the NYC broadcast towers were on top of the World Trade Center and have now been moved to the Empire State Building. Most of the ones in New Jersey are PBS or Telemundo or Mundofox (the new Spanish language network). The ESB is 75-90 miles away, so we are at the edge of possible range.

In my childhood home (sold in 1977) we had antenna channels, but I've had Cable TV since then. When I put my old address into any of these web sites, it says the only channels that come in are the local South Mountain stations (WLVT WFMZ, WBPH). But I know I watched TV as a child.

I think that homes along 248 Moore Township/Bath are getting their reception from Penobscot Knob (PK), just south of Wilkes Barre. PK is over 2000' high and the towers are another 800'-1000' so I think the signal can get over Blue Mountain (700') . PK is the site of many local television station transmitters.
WNEP-DT 16.1 ABC
WBRE-DT 28.1 NBC
WYOU-DT 22.1 CBS
WOLF-DT 56.1 FOX
WVIA-DT 44.1 PBS

The "must carry" law requiring the cable companies to carry the local broadcast stations was passed in 1992, and upheld in Supreme Court ruling in 1997. For some reason RCN began including the local broadcast stations along with "just internet" a few months ago. It could be marketing, or it could be that RCN is afraid of being sued for selling internet without the local broadcast stations. I realize that an internet connection is not the same as CaTV, but the lawyers may be positioning themselves for a future ruling.

The industry seems to be in serious flux. I know that RCN radically changed their offerings and prices several times this year. There should be a major consolidation in the next few years in the cable business (which is normally what happens when any industry reaches maturity and no new customers are available).

[PacoMartin]

Let me repost my question. There are transmitting towers for ABC, CBS, NBC, and FOX
1) Northern Philadelphia 43 miles south of ABE on top of a hill altitude 250'
2) South of Wilkes Barre 43 miles north of ABE on top of a hill altitude 2100'
3) Empire State Building 77 miles east of ABE on top of 1500' building on land with altitude 50'

Has anyone been getting modern High Definition signals via antenna? Can you report your location and which stations you get? Any advice on type of antenna?

[sucroc]

I live in Fleetwood, PA, about 25 miles west of Allentown, PA. I use two outside antennas; one towards Scranton, and one towards Philadelphia. I get about 65 digital channels (average day) and 19 of them are High Def. Here is my lineup;

2.1,2.2,2.3,2.4,
3.1,3.2,
4.1,4.2,
6.1,6.2,6.3,
10.1,10.2,
12.1,12.2,12.3,
16.1,16.2,
17.1,17.2,17.3,17.4,
22.1,
23.1,23.2,23.3,
28.1,
29.1,29.2,29.3,
33.1,33.2,33.3,33.4,33.5,33.6,33.7,
35.1,35.2,35.3,35.4,35.5,
39.1,39.3,39.4,
44.1,44.2,44.3,
48.1,48.2,48.3,48.4,48.5,
51.1,51.2,
56.1,56.2,56.3,
57.1,
60.1,60.2,
61.1,61.2,61.3,61.4,61.5,61.6,
62.1,62.2
65.1,65.2,65.3,65.4,
69.1,69.2,69.3,69.4.

Channel 2.1-2.4, and channel 22.1 sometimes are too weak to always get a good lock (no pixellation) during daytime due to interference from in line businesses. [Note: They almost always work perfect from 6 PM till about 8 AM]

Channel 4.1-4.2, channel 23.1-23.3, channel 33.1-33.7 and channel 62.1-62.2 only come in on special weather conditions on foggy/humid days or warm humid fronts over large regions of the east coast.

The antennas form a 170 degree angle IE: Scranton antenna at about 340 degrees and Philly antenna at about 150 degrees. I connect both 300 ohm twin leads together in parallel with the left wire from Scranton tied to the right wire from Philly and right wire from Scranton to the left wire from Philly, and then into a 300 to 75 ohm convertor and then into an antenna mounted 35 DB gain amplifier (from Radio Shack) with the amplifier power supply inside my house.

Scranton antenna picks up Hazelton PA, Wilkes Barre PA, Pittston PA, Scranton PA, and Williamsport PA.
Philly antenna picks up Wilmington DE, Philly PA, and Southern NJ. The interference patterns from the antenna blades from the two antennas form yet another virtual antenna that pulls in Reading PA, Allentown PA, and Bethlehem PA.

The antennas are discontinued Channel Master antennas purchased at Radio Shack with model # VU-210 (Philly Antenna) and # VU-190 (Scranton Antenna). The Philly Antenna is about 4 feet above my roof peak and the Scranton Antenna is about 6 inches above my rooftop.

My roof is about 35 ft tall and my property is at a 750 ft altitude.

Before my mast bent over 3 years ago, it was 10 feet tall, making the Philly Antenna at 10 ft above roof and the Scranton Antenna at 2 feet above roof. The lock in for 22.1, and 2.1-2.4 were much better.

To test what you can get there, put up a big (VU-190 - [190 mile]) antenna and turn it around with a tenna-rotor 1 degree at a time and do an automatic channel search at each degree. You will probably find at least two good settings with many channels at each setting. Then you set up your multiple antennas towards these high channel transmitting areas to get the channels from multiple channel areas.
For you, it may be NY channels and Philly channels (2 antennas) or even NY, Philly, and Scranton (3 antennas).

Note the more rural (away from business clusters), higher your property (Altitude close to 1000 ft or higher), and proximity near the top of a hill give you the best reception.

My future plan is a 90 ft tower with 4 antennas (1 at 340 degrees and one at 360 degrees for north channels and 1 at 140 degrees and 1 at 160 degrees for south east channels), the 340 and 360 degree antennas would be wired in series and the 140 and 160 degree antennas would be wired in series with the two outputs from nort and south wired parallel to give a true 300 ohm input to the 300-75 ohm transformer. It actually is amazing to think I get all these channels with an impedance mismatch input of 150 ohms going into the 300-75 ohm transformer. I expect to get 100-125 digital channels with 24 a day solid locks (No pixellation) with this setup.

Bottom line is, I've saved $5,800 (40 a month basic cable - about 30 channels) in 12 years for a mere $150 investment ($50 for discontinued vu-210, $40 for discontinued vu-190, $35 for amplifier, $50 for tenna-rotor, and $25 for hardware, mast, and wire. The tenna-rotor is not necessary but helpful to tweak best reception from summer to winter when the solar flares and ionisphere change the sweet spot (degrees) where you get the most channels.

To locate comparable antennas there are still some leftover Radio Shack vu-190s available on EBAY for about $100. I think Channel Master may still make a comparable one as well for about $120. Also there is a specialty place in Lenhartsville, PA called the Antenna Store that sells both antennas and towers to mount them. They are very savvy in the over the air antenna world and used to sell the towers for about $100 for every 10 foot segment.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by sucroc

I get about 65 digital channels (average day) and 19 of them are High Def. Here is my lineup;

I'm not sure I even know all those channels. What is channels 4.2 and 22?

Channel 29 just put a relay station on South Mountain in Allentown.

2.1,2.2,2.3,2.4,: KJWP (2.1 Me-TV, 2.2 Escape, 2.3 Grit, 2.4 Justice Network)
3.1,3.2, : KYW-TV (3.1 CBS, 3.2 CBS Philly Plus)
4.1,4.2,: Atlantic City WACP (4.1 Ind)
6.1,6.2,6.3,: WPVI-TV (6.1 ABC, 6.2 LWN HD, 6.3 LWN SD)
10.1,10.2, : WCAU (10.1 NBC, 10.2 Cozi TV)
12.1,12.2,12.3, : WHYY (12.1 PBS, 12.2 Y2, 12.3 Y Info)
16.1,16.2, : WNEP (ABC affiliate
17.1,17.2,17.3,17.4, : WPHL-TV (17.1 MNTV, 17.2 Antenna TV, 17.3 This TV, 17.4 Mummers)
22.1,
23.1,23.2,23.3, :WNJS (23.1 PBS / NJTV, 23.3 AudioVi)
28.1, :WFPA-CA 28 (UniMás)
29.1,29.2,29.3, : WTXF (29.1 Fox, 29.2 Movies!, 29.3 WPSJ-CD)
33.1,33.2,33.3,33.4,33.5,33.6,33.7, :WZPA-LD
(33.1 QVC, 33.2 HSN, 33.3 SBN, 33.4 LATV, 33.5 color bars, 33.6 Peace TV, 33.7 AZA)

35.1,35.2,35.3,35.4,35.5, :WYBE
(35.1 Public Ind, 35.2 NHK World, 35.3 France 24, 35.4 RT, 35.66 WNYJ-DT1 simulcast)

39.1,39.3,39.4,: Lehigh Valley WLVT (39.1 PBS, 39.2 V-me, 39.3 Create)
44.1,44.2,44.3,:WMCN (44.1 Ind, 44.2 SSN)
48.1,48.2,48.3,48.4,48.5, : WGTW (48.1 TBN, 48.2 Church, 48.3 JUCE TV, 48.4 Enlace, 48.5 Smile)
51.1,51.2, :Reading WTVE (51.1 Ind, 52.2 The Works, 51.3 VIETV (Vietnamese))
56.1,56.2,56.3, : FOX NEPA
57.1,: WPSG (57.1 CW)
60.1,60.2,:WBPH (60.1 Ind, 60.2 BizTV)
61.1,61.2,61.3,61.4,61.5,61.6,WPPX-TV
(61.1 Ion, 61.2 Qubo, 61.3 Ion Life, 61.4 Ion Shop, 61.5 QVC Over The Air, 61.6 HSN)

62.1,62.2: WWSI (62.1 TMD)
65.1,65.2,65.3,65.4, :WUVP-TV (65.1 UNI, 65.2 WFPA-CA, 65.3 GetTV, 65.4 Bounce TV)
69.1,69.2,69.3,69.4.: WFMZ (69.1 Ind, 69.2 AccuWX, 69.3 Heroes & Icons, 69.4 Retro TV)


======================
None of these?

WEFG-LD (7.1 SSN, 7.2 Tuff TV, 7.3 My Family TV, 7.4 Nazca Network/Telos TV, 7.5 TVC+, 7.6 Vmas)
WELL-LD (8.1 Daystar)
WPSJ-CD (8.1 MundoFox, 8.2 SBN, 8.3 GOD, 8.4 A1)
WPHY-CD (25.1 A1)
WQAV-CD 34 (AV/Ind)
WPHA-CD (38.1/38.2/38.3/38.4 Infomercials)
WWDD-LD 40 (DS) WNAI-LP 41 (HSN)
WMGM (40.1 SSN)
WNJT (52.1 PBS / NJTV, 52.3 AudioVi)

[mrknowitall526]

Originally Posted by PacoMartin

I'm not sure I even know all those channels. What is channels 4.2 and 22?

Channel 29 just put a relay station on South Mountain in Allentown.

2.1,2.2,2.3,2.4,: KJWP (2.1 Me-TV, 2.2 Escape, 2.3 Grit, 2.4 Justice Network)
3.1,3.2, : KYW-TV (3.1 CBS, 3.2 CBS Philly Plus)
4.1,4.2,: Atlantic City WACP (4.1 Ind)
6.1,6.2,6.3,: WPVI-TV (6.1 ABC, 6.2 LWN HD, 6.3 LWN SD)
10.1,10.2, : WCAU (10.1 NBC, 10.2 Cozi TV)
12.1,12.2,12.3, : WHYY (12.1 PBS, 12.2 Y2, 12.3 Y Info)
16.1,16.2, : WNEP (ABC affiliate
17.1,17.2,17.3,17.4, : WPHL-TV (17.1 MNTV, 17.2 Antenna TV, 17.3 This TV, 17.4 Mummers)
22.1,
23.1,23.2,23.3, :WNJS (23.1 PBS / NJTV, 23.3 AudioVi)
28.1, :WFPA-CA 28 (UniMás)
29.1,29.2,29.3, : WTXF (29.1 Fox, 29.2 Movies!, 29.3 WPSJ-CD)
33.1,33.2,33.3,33.4,33.5,33.6,33.7, :WZPA-LD
(33.1 QVC, 33.2 HSN, 33.3 SBN, 33.4 LATV, 33.5 color bars, 33.6 Peace TV, 33.7 AZA)

35.1,35.2,35.3,35.4,35.5, :WYBE
(35.1 Public Ind, 35.2 NHK World, 35.3 France 24, 35.4 RT, 35.66 WNYJ-DT1 simulcast)

39.1,39.3,39.4,: Lehigh Valley WLVT (39.1 PBS, 39.2 V-me, 39.3 Create)
44.1,44.2,44.3,:WMCN (44.1 Ind, 44.2 SSN)
48.1,48.2,48.3,48.4,48.5, : WGTW (48.1 TBN, 48.2 Church, 48.3 JUCE TV, 48.4 Enlace, 48.5 Smile)
51.1,51.2, :Reading WTVE (51.1 Ind, 52.2 The Works, 51.3 VIETV (Vietnamese))
56.1,56.2,56.3, : FOX NEPA
57.1,: WPSG (57.1 CW)
60.1,60.2,:WBPH (60.1 Ind, 60.2 BizTV)
61.1,61.2,61.3,61.4,61.5,61.6,WPPX-TV
(61.1 Ion, 61.2 Qubo, 61.3 Ion Life, 61.4 Ion Shop, 61.5 QVC Over The Air, 61.6 HSN)

62.1,62.2: WWSI (62.1 TMD)
65.1,65.2,65.3,65.4, :WUVP-TV (65.1 UNI, 65.2 WFPA-CA, 65.3 GetTV, 65.4 Bounce TV)
69.1,69.2,69.3,69.4.: WFMZ (69.1 Ind, 69.2 AccuWX, 69.3 Heroes & Icons, 69.4 Retro TV)


======================
None of these?

WEFG-LD (7.1 SSN, 7.2 Tuff TV, 7.3 My Family TV, 7.4 Nazca Network/Telos TV, 7.5 TVC+, 7.6 Vmas)
WELL-LD (8.1 Daystar)
WPSJ-CD (8.1 MundoFox, 8.2 SBN, 8.3 GOD, 8.4 A1)
WPHY-CD (25.1 A1)
WQAV-CD 34 (AV/Ind)
WPHA-CD (38.1/38.2/38.3/38.4 Infomercials)
WWDD-LD 40 (DS) WNAI-LP 41 (HSN)
WMGM (40.1 SSN)
WNJT (52.1 PBS / NJTV, 52.3 AudioVi)

22 would be CBS from Scranton.

I am at 800 feet elevation in Lynn Township, only a few miles south of Blue Mountain (can see it out my back window very well) and I picked up 69 and 16 in my basement with a $14 antenna from Walmart. But, I don't think I would get any Philly stations if I had a better antenna.

I have friends in Boyertown who use an antenna and they get a large number of channels, and the HD ones look pretty good.

Another friend in the Moorestown area uses an antenna (just mounted inside) and I think they get at least 3, 6, 10, and 69.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by mrknowitall526

Another friend in the Moorestown area uses an antenna (just mounted inside) and I think they get at least 3, 6, 10, and 69.

In Europe there is a "television watching tax" that can be quite expensive. It is well over US$400 in Switzerland and is 145 pounds in Britain (over $200). It applies to video on computers if it is "LIVE". In addition the technical requirements on TV's are much more stringent (meaning they are more expensive). Also there are many more broadcast towers per square mile.

But the end result is more public commercial free TV, and much better reception. About 85% of the households in the UK watch antenna TV, and about 45% watch exclusively antenna TV.

Broadcast TV in the UK is trademarked as FREEVIEW, and it includes up to 60 standard definition channels. The number of High Def channels you get depends on the region you live in.

What do you think? Should we pay $200/yr in TV watchng tax.



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