[jfkIII]

Yes...Trump is fired...up.

[looking4warm]

Olecapt, I'm wondering why you consider $300 psf to be too high for Trump. Is that because of number crunching the rental program or because you feel the market won't sustain that price?

By my calculations at the current rental rates and occupancy, a Trump studio shows about a 2.5% annual return at a purchase price of $160k. Not enough to cover a mortgage but about what banks pay on CDs.

I'm thinking that the room rates and occupancy will likely improve over the coming months and years and that sale prices will as well. Curious to hear the opinions of those on the ground there.

Regarding the $106k sale that was a short sale from BofA made by investor with a $300 million dollar portfolio of BofA properties. Not something the average person is going to negotiate with BofA. But my initial thought was that other banks might look to that sale to gauge other sales. Doesn't seem to be the case though. Seems that sale prices for studios (which net more than 1 bedrooms) are now $155k - $185k depending on floor and direction.

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by looking4warm

Olecapt, I'm wondering why you consider $300 psf to be too high for Trump. Is that because of number crunching the rental program or because you feel the market won't sustain that price?

Actually what I said was I though $300 psf was too high for any of them. What I am saying is that the same money in small homes or condos will likely yield as much as 8 or 10%. Go after the less desirable neighborhoods and you can probably get it to 12%. I would think these places would end up at $150 or so per SF if it was just economics working. Watch the condohotels in LLV as an example.

I am of course aware that I don't get a vote. So I expect that those who buy such a place want it for other than straight investment purposes. So if they want to hold it at 0% return that is their choice.

By my calculations at the current rental rates and occupancy, a Trump studio shows about a 2.5% annual return at a purchase price of $160k. Not enough to cover a mortgage but about what banks pay on CDs.

The rub is you need a really good crystal ball to make that projection. I think they make 0% or more...but never a lot. We need time and experience to know what that number is.

I am also suspicious as to whether any of the managing companies will allow any sort of reasonable return. Maybe they will let the owners get the appreciation...but maybe not. Maybe they will increase costs as fast as appreciation happens.

I'm thinking that the room rates and occupancy will likely improve over the coming months and years and that sale prices will as well. Curious to hear the opinions of those on the ground there.

Regarding the $106k sale that was a short sale from BofA made by investor with a $300 million dollar portfolio of BofA properties. Not something the average person is going to negotiate with BofA. But my initial thought was that other banks might look to that sale to gauge other sales. Doesn't seem to be the case though. Seems that sale prices for studios (which net more than 1 bedrooms) are now $155k - $185k depending on floor and direction.

Again you are dealing with some of the world's best extractors of dollars from the public. Will they allow any significant return to the owner? Stay tuned. But I would not in the least be surprised to see rate splits and other charges offseting any gain in revenue. May be you get the appreciation...I certainly hope so...But any actually revenue providing a return? I don't think so.

[lvandyke]

Originally Posted by 007 license to sell

Here is the latest on what is going on with Trump Tower.Trump gets financing, analysts cheer loan April 2, 2010By Buck WargoWhile the recession continues in Southern Nevada and lenders are leery of loaning money for projects, news that Donald Trump has secured long-term financing for the Trump International has generated some optimism.

I can't get the link to function. Is there another source of this information or can someone fill me in??

[tony soprano]

For some reason the URL tags aren't working.

http ://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/apr/02/trump-gets-financing-analysts-cheer-loan/

^Delete the space after http and cut & paste the above link into your browser.

[looking4warm]

Originally Posted by olecapt

I am also suspicious as to whether any of the managing companies will allow any sort of reasonable return. Maybe they will let the owners get the appreciation...but maybe not. Maybe they will increase costs as fast as appreciation happens.


Again you are dealing with some of the world's best extractors of dollars from the public. Will they allow any significant return to the owner? Stay tuned. But I would not in the least be surprised to see rate splits and other charges offseting any gain in revenue. May be you get the appreciation...I certainly hope so...But any actually revenue providing a return? I don't think so.

That's a compelling point Olecapt. Reminds me of TimeShare operations. The profit is everywhere for the developer (maintenance fees, resort fees, management fees, etc.) and always at the expense of the TimeShare or now condotel owner. Who wants to bet that Trump will leave money for the owners, when all he has to do is raise their fees?

Gee, now I'm thinking of backing out of my deal. The problem with regular rental properties (single family homes or condos) is the management hassles. Trump and the other condotels are really hands off investments -- I guess the catch is the last word 'investments'. Maybe they're really just 'hands off expenses'. Hmmm. Something to sleep on.

Anyone with a crystal ball who can share where the market is headed on these units? My sense is that like Signature they have found their bottom, barring any major whammy in the overall market.

[panolover]

Originally Posted by olecapt

I am not sure that condohotels make a lot of sense for a unit used only by the owner. If you end up in the rental pool than you simply own a hotel room...the only thing you may get is a private owners closet...but otherwise is is equipped and maintained like all the others. And for that you pay a sizable HOA premium.

You might do better to wait for Veer. That will really place you in the middle of the strip and let you walk to wherever. I would think you will see Veer units under $500 psf in the not too distant future. High floors with good views will cost a lot more than that but lower floor units will be there.

I do not know why would anyone buy Veer since the units are ugly with cheap appliances, no windows or balcony. I rather buy at Panorama North Tower

[jfkIII]

Originally Posted by panolover

I do not know why would anyone buy Veer since the units are ugly with cheap appliances, no windows or balcony. I rather buy at Panorama North Tower

Sounds like Light Veer to me!

[dynimagelv]

Originally Posted by jfkIII

Sounds like Light Veer to me!

I prefer 2 X's myself.