[MSchu]

Originally Posted by aggrofish

I cashed out numerous times, just not the last time.

NOT a ponzi.

Lots of misinformation ITT.

^Ditto...
plenty of fast cash outs and quick deposits on a continual basis in the good ol days... no problems.

this latest foray might be nothing more than a pressure technique, the gov would have a huge hurdle to jump in proving Howard and Chris had much control on day to day operations.

[Croce]

The genesis of the problem as I understand it for Full Tilt stemmed from them not being able to process transactions. The US gov cracked down on these sites through the banking system. So they had to use some "shady operators" to get the players money into Full Tilt's bank account. One of these operators stuck them for over $30 million. They took them to court (overseas) won a judgment but were never paid. It was all down hill from there.

[delgadobb]

Soooo much misinformation here, as others have mentioned.

The UIGEA was slipped into a port security bill at the end of the Bush Administration, IIRC. It did NOT make online poker illegal, rather it imposed strict rules on the flow of money for online gambling sites. The idea was "choke off the flow of money & the rest will follow from there".

I'm a winning player & cashed out several times from PokerStars & elsewhere. Thankfully, I cashed out a long time ago & didn't have any money remaining at Full Tilt.

The problem with Full Tilt was mismanagement (co-mingling of funds) that made it difficult if not impossible to segregate player deposits & other moneys. The scandal led to Phil Ivey (affiliated with Full Tilt) boycotting this year's World Series of Poker; whether it was 'doing the right thing' or self-serving for PR reasons, it was likely a good decision.

Now, Full Tilt is using the excuse that a payment processor ripped them off to the tune of tens of millions of dollars, so they can't pay back the players. My question is, didn't you know about this on April 15th when the DOJ shut things down? What took you five (5) months to figure this out? Sure sounds like spin control to me, especially when the supposed losses to the payment processor is still a fraction of what's owed to players.

As usual, the linked article is sloppy journalism but at least the basic premise "Full Tilt = bad" is correct.

[irishspy]

Gee isn't wall street like this lol. One day you have it the next you do not. The stock trading is now done by computer so you do no know when a big sell off is going to happen. As far a gambling nothing beats the real deal of live casino you can see your money and walk with it ant time.

[aggrofish]

Originally Posted by irishspy

Gee isn't wall street like this lol. One day you have it the next you do not. The stock trading is now done by computer so you do no know when a big sell off is going to happen. As far a gambling nothing beats the real deal of live casino you can see your money and walk with it ant time.

I want even a huge multitabler, but I still played 4-6 tables of 6 max. I got in more hands in a night than I would live in a month. I only tracked a fraction of the hands I've played because I'd sometimes play from my desktop and other times from my laptop. But I do know that I have more than 1,000,000 hands in my database that I cant even remember the password to.

I could play all day every day for the rest of my life and get nowhere near that. Dont get me wrong live is fun, but it's painfully slow. Online was way, way, way better for making money.

[MSchu]

I know we all play to make money, but for me live play has the distinct edge for me personally... more entertainment while my arse leathers up.

we all know hand volume leads to massive equity potential, but I still like looking across the table at some smelly 2nd shift beer belly that can not figure out why his stacks keeps disappearing.

[LVPoker1]

Originally Posted by skisickie

I am with you on this one and have never met anyone who won & was able to "cash out"

I stopped reading the thread here. I am guessing you don't know many people that have played online poker.

[MSchu]

Oopsidoodle!

DOJ Moves to Seize FTP Board Members’ Funds | Subject: Poker

DOJ Moves to Seize FTP Board Members’ Funds


On September 19, Subject: Poker reported that the US Attorneys office for the Southern District of New York amended the civil complaint originally unsealed on Black Friday to include allegations against three additional board members of Full Tilt Poker, Howard Lederer, Chris Ferguson, and Rafe Furst. Now, Subject: Poker has learned that warrants have been issued to seize the assets of these three men. The newly named civil defendants, Howard Lederer, Chris Ferguson, and Rafe Furst, along with previously named Ray Bitar, were charged with money laundering allegations in the amended civil complaint. Included in those allegations were dollar amounts that those board members had collected from FTP during their tenure in the form of distribution payments and profit sharing: From April 2007 to April 1, 2011, the DOJ alleges that Tiltware LLC’s owners received approximately $443,860,530 in such payments, including at least $41 million to Ray Bitar, at least $42 million to Howard Lederer, and at least $11.7 million to Rafe Furst. Chris Ferguson was allegedly allocated at least $85 million, but reportedly only received $25 million of that, with the rest of the balance listed as owed to him. The remaining balance of the $ 443,860,530 was disbursed to the other owners.

[Willy702]

These guys were just acting like tens of thousands of people have in Vegas in recent years. When times were flush the gains seemed endless and they paid themselves handsomely with money that was there. Then enters the prosecution seizing millions and basically making their business worth very little relatively speaking with no way to recover profitability if they can never serve the US market again. So instead of doing the honorable thing and giving back some previous profits they just walked away from an asset now worth less than what they essentially owe on it. They hoped some European interests would value the name and the goodwill of the business what they owed or maybe a bit more, but when those deals didn't pan out it was time to hand over the keys and hide the assets.

So yeah they deserve some shame and repercussions, but boy a lot of people around town sure could use the same but instead they tell us they are just getting back at the banks and what they are doing should be perfectly acceptable. You be the judge.

[Bart9399]

Originally Posted by delgadobb

Soooo much misinformation here, as others have mentioned.
As usual, the linked article is sloppy journalism but at least the basic premise "Full Tilt = bad" is correct.

I agree with everything you wrote. The mismanagement of players' funds is obvious.

I would like to believe, however, that Howard Lederer isn't the crook that he is depicted as being. Who knows. He seemed to be a player with integrity. He certainly was a great Poker instructer. Oh, well, anyone can get caught up in the fast lifestyle.


guy