[Tiger Beer]

Since Nevada has a ton of poker players...what are some of the laws with online poker.

For example, many professionals encourage play on their sites...but the Federal Government made it illegal, etc.

It seems the laws are ambigious at best. Seems like the gov't is targeting credit card companies and other ways to get money to the sites above anything else.

What is the status with online poker laws...and money?

[MadManofBethesda]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

What is the status with online poker laws...and money?

Here is a link to the best comprehensive discussion of the issue that I've ever seen:

Lawrence G. Walters, First Amendment Attorney - Publications & Articles

[delgadobb]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

Since Nevada has a ton of poker players...what are some of the laws with online poker.

For example, many professionals encourage play on their sites...but the Federal Government made it illegal, etc.

It seems the laws are ambigious at best. Seems like the gov't is targeting credit card companies and other ways to get money to the sites above anything else.

What is the status with online poker laws...and money?

First of all, let's be clear. Playing poker online is NOT illegal. It's more difficult than it used to be, but it is NOT illegal.

The UIGEA (Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act) was snuck into an unrelated Homeland Security bill at the last minute - sometimes described as a result of politicians trading favors. What it does is attempt to limit Internet Gambling by trying to control the flow of money - basically, they're giving penalties for banks and/or others that deal with known gambling entities.

It's very difficult, at this point, to make online poker and/or gambling illegal. Online poker rooms and/or gambling sites are based outside the US, so it's very difficult to have jurisdiction. Some are located in tribal areas in Canada, some in Costa Rica, some on other island nations, etc. Congress often acts like the US controls the internet, but it truly is a world-wide network. We're just one of the pieces of the pie. When I connect to an IP address based in Costa Rica, I can click my mouse & choose how I want to interface with the servers at that location. Whether it's via a web browser or poker software, how is the government going to police that when software piracy, porn or whatever you want to name are all accessible to anyone with an internet connection? We don't control what happens in those island nations, third world countries, etc.

So, they did the next-best thing. They try to control the flow of money. It was enough to scare many sites from accepting US customers, including PartyPoker & its related network, which at the time was the largest online poker site. Pokerstars has since taken over that moniker, with FullTilt poker & others trailing them.

The US Government's plan has worked to an extent - with PartyPoker & others backing out of the US market, they obviously put a scare into some people. Since PartyPoker's publicly traded in the UK, they acquiesced to investors & PR concerns. It opened the door for Pokerstars & FullTilt to grow into the big rooms, since they are privately held & willing to risk potential future legal headaches. The government also scared some payment processors into backing out of the US market, including the biggest fish - NetTeller. I used to use NetTeller to transfer money in/out of online sites, now it's much more difficult - but still possible. However, I haven't tried doing any recent transfers, as I play much more live poker & tend to leave my online winnings at each site - less money at stake. If I win a large amount, it will be interesting to see how difficult the withdrawal becomes.

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by delgadobb

The government also scared some payment processors into backing out of the US market, including the biggest fish - NetTeller. I used to use NetTeller to transfer money in/out of online sites, now it's much more difficult - but still possible. However, I haven't tried doing any recent transfers, as I play much more live poker & tend to leave my online winnings at each site - less money at stake. If I win a large amount, it will be interesting to see how difficult the withdrawal becomes.

That was actually the inspiration of this thread.

I've often played on the online sites...pretty much everyday. I use to play the 'play money' ones...but you can enter into freerolls and other tournaments and win some small coins, etc.

So, actually I got a hold of a $1 through a freeroll...and slowly made it into $80. I'm just playing little $1 entry tournaments...but when you hit them, you can put a little bankroll in your account for yourself.

Of course, none of these sites will take my credit cards...so, IF I were to ever somehow make serious bank on some tourney...not a high chance...but IF. I keep thinking that being an American and without having a credit card registered...it's possible they could see I have never made a deposit with a registered credit card, and somehow legally deny me from ever making a withdrawal, etc.

Frankly though, I'm just happy to be able to play in money tournaments....so won't be withdrawing anything anytime soon. But just a big "IF" if I were to keep the momentum going in the long-term, and I did want to make a withdrawal...I am very interested in the legality of that, and if I can pursue a case for it.

(If the U.S. government hadn't created these anti-online laws, a legal recourse would just be a lot easier).

[adamruns]

Just remember to pay your taxes on any winnings. Not sure if it is the net profit for the year or daily sessions wins - daily sessions losses that you need. Basically the same thing in the end.

Also I was of the understanding that online gambling was illegal by the wire act even before that new law. It was just no one seemed to care.

Is online poker even considered gambling? I am suprised no one has challaneged that in the last few years.

I think taxing and regulating would be in the best interest. Any one willing to pay online poker needs to know that there is a lot of collusion be it with other players or the poker site.

[Kaiminani]

Sounds like many, if not all, such sites will accept checks in the mail. If they will take a check to fund an account they ought to be able to cut you a check to cash out of an account too.

[Tiger Beer]

My favorite online poker site...PKR.com...which is animation...great site...based out of the UK.

But, anyways, when I'm in the U.S., you can't even access the money side of the account.

Since I'm an American living in Japan...I can get money in and out of the site...but when I visited the U.S. a few months ago, I had no access to my funds, etc.

Anyways, I am HOPING that someone eventually reverses this law.

[aggrofish]

There's no problem getting money on or off the major sites, although I haven't deposited since maybe 2007.

Tiger beer, if you want to play in the U.S. you're going to get off the Euro sites that dont allow American players. I see no reason not to just play at FTP or Stars.

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by aggrofish

There's no problem getting money on or off the major sites, although I haven't deposited since maybe 2007.

Tiger beer, if you want to play in the U.S. you're going to get off the Euro sites that dont allow American players. I see no reason not to just play at FTP or Stars.

I use to play on UltimateBet all the time...but got consolidated with a much worse partner...and they changed the design for the worse.

I also briefly played on FTP and PokerStars...but they are just so clunky and....just really dislike the format.

PKR is an amazing site....once you get on that, you'll find it real hard to use any of the more archaic format for sites.

Well, while I'm still in Japan, I'll stick with PKR...and just HOPEFULLY one of the American sites creates some significantly better graphics and upgrades to something that is even somewhat remotely equivalent.

[Willy702]

Actually there is a Nevada law making it illegal to play any form of gambling online unless it is done with a Nevada gaming licensee, but it has only been used once to charge someone in its over 10 years of existence. The person charged was Billy Walters and the AG's office has had a long standing vendetta against him. Other than that no one has even been close to facing a charge and as mentioned there are tens of thousands of Nevadans betting online.

The federal law doesn't appear to apply to poker but it sure won't stop the Dept of Justice from trying to enforce it against poker sites. The general rule though is players don't get prosecuted, the business side gets it.

So yes it is probably illegal to play, but frankly your chances of getting in trouble are zero. My guess is the only reason why someone might want to avoid it is if they were going to try to get a job which required gaming licensing or some other high profile position where any sort of crime or appearance of crime would get someone in hot water.