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While small in KC, it sounds like the urban Catholic culture is more pronounced in STL. It's hard to imagine what our inner cities would look like had it not been for Catholics.
I'd definitely agree with that -- though as has kind of been mentioned here I know so many "Catholics" who haven't been to church in years. To a certain extent I think for a lot of people it is more cultural than religious. More about the fish fry than mass.
Likely the case with both KC/STL Catholics. STL has more traditional city Catholics overall, KC has a broader mix of Latino Catholics, old school city Catholics and contemp flavors of Catholics - in both cities a high % are not active. KC is more mixed up with a wider variety of identities (and KC is apparently above US average with no religious identity), where STL is more provincial with larger groups of fewer identities, even if not active in the identity.
This is probably because KC has more fresh blood from elsewhere compared to STL and KC isn't as tied down to traditions as STL relatively tends to be. I can't find the source but I saw a few years ago, if I recall, <70% of KC metro was born in the KC region. STL is closer to 80%.
I'd definitely agree with that -- though as has kind of been mentioned here I know so many "Catholics" who haven't been to church in years. To a certain extent I think for a lot of people it is more cultural than religious. More about the fish fry than mass.
Yeah, Catholicism is a unifying culture almost like an ethnicity or kind of like Judaism. I think Lutherans are a bit like that too. Others too I'm sure. Personally, I've always felt I was born into a family that lacks a culture because we were none of the above. Some folks just weren't good at passing down culture and tradition. I think that's why there are so many Baptists (and similar churches) because the "lost" had to be a part of something. I also think this is why the South has such a strong culture, why these folks are so nationalistic, and why on ethnicity maps much or most of the South claims "American".
I would say that I have become culturally catholic. About half or so of my friends growing up were catholic, but when I dropped out of the central corridor (from originally the NWish metro thang)to the southside, then I understood it. I get goosebumps hearing latin mass. More importantly, I go to picnics and fish frys and drink a few beers with my neighbors and talk neighborhood gossip. I also like the New Orleans catholic thang, of course it makes us in St. Louis looks stodgy. I find myself feeling like a character from the American Gothic painting when I get mixed up with those folks down there.
I have an opportunity to relocate for work to Kansas City, MO or Springfield, MO. I'm wondering what advantages the cities have over each other.
KC is larger and has more amenities, but the cities actually have some similarities. There has been a resurgence in both down towns, physically the 2 cities share many traits, KC is obviously larger, but both came of age about the same time, north Springfield is alot like midtown KC, and downtown Springfield is alot like a cleaner version of Westport. East Springfield, around Mo State looks like Brookside
I have a friend who is gay who lives in south Springfield with his partner, he is a native who returned there about 10 years ago. last time I visited they were doing fine.
There is a dichotomy to Springfield, there is a strong fundamentalist presence in town, but a fairly large subculture of all kinds of crazy stuff due to the universities.
I visited Springfield last summer. I really like the place. It just gives me a good vibe. It's also a busy place, vibrant. The daytime population change is huge for such a small city. Plus there's a huge college-student population. Be prepared to drive in some crazy traffic while there if using the main thoroughfares.
The cost of living is cheap and there are some great deals in older and historic neighborhoods on houses. Even though there are hardly any minorities in Springfield (the place is 90% white) and no true ghettos, many folks in that town still treat older neighborhoods as such, which seems to be more of a class divide more than anything or just a distaste for older and historic housing. Generally, northwest Springfield is considered least desirable and is more hardcore working-class and poor than anything. It's a white ghetto, I guess. I was told the Grant Beach neighborhood north of downtown was "black", but I spent plenty of time driving through there as well as at the neighborhood's centerpiece, Grant Beach Park and Pool, and while there were black folks, it was a majority white experience. I guess if not for race, class has to be what is divisive.
My favorite part of the city of Springfield is the eastern side of downtown and the neighborhood of historic houses just east of downtown. There's a semi-urban, walkable neighborhood strip along National Ave just north of Missouri State University with a Chipotle, Panera, and other businesses. The area is centered around a historic district called "Walnut Street Historic District". Further west within walking distance, in actual downtown Springfield where I didn't get to spend any time, is a district of restaurants, bars, etc. which seem to be where younger and alternative people congregate. Downtown Springfield actually has an urban grocery store! www.bistromarket.net And for more general info on downtown Springfield: It's All Downtown - Springfield, MO
I'm not sure what else to say. Most of the suburban development in Springfield is located on the southeast side of town and is highly coveted by a certain set, just like with any town. They do have a great mall, Battlefield Mall. Macy's, Dillard's, JCPenney, Sears, Banana Republic, Express, Jos A Bank, Abecrombie etc. Battlefield Mall - Springfield, MO 65804 | Simon Malls
What Springfield has that Kansas City can't touch is natural surroundings, lack of ghetto, and more of a small-town environment.
I like your response the most of all those on the first two pages , I always stop in St. Louis and Springfield MO when I visit my wife folks in Milwaukee and my folks in Tulsa OK you have to travel Interstate 44 , and that McDonald Cafe over Interstate 44 is a must stop to..LOL...Springfield MO City of Springfield, MO: Your City Government is one of the best small 450,000 metro cities in America , and has lot of attraction that you would think that a small city wouldn't have.KansasCity MO/Ks is just (4) Times the size of Springfield MO that's all....
Springfield MO Springfield, Missouri had a very impressive skyline for a (I) guess 150,000 population city , and it is what it is 150,000 and not 450,000 like Kansas City Mo/Ks...I saw a Wild Animal Park " don't know if it's still there , I didn't spend any time there (but) spend some time at Fantastic Cave or was that Fantastic Caverns...Springfield MO is a City For ( Chillax....ing ) for ppl tired of the Dog Eat Dog Lifestyle........ ...... Springfield, Missouri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ............
Last edited by Howest2008; 01-28-2012 at 03:19 PM..
I visited Springfield last summer. I really like the place. It just gives me a good vibe. It's also a busy place, vibrant. The daytime population change is huge for such a small city. Plus there's a huge college-student population. Be prepared to drive in some crazy traffic while there if using the main thoroughfares.
The cost of living is cheap and there are some great deals in older and historic neighborhoods on houses. Even though there are hardly any minorities in Springfield (the place is 90% white) and no true ghettos, many folks in that town still treat older neighborhoods as such, which seems to be more of a class divide more than anything or just a distaste for older and historic housing. Generally, northwest Springfield is considered least desirable and is more hardcore working-class and poor than anything. It's a white ghetto, I guess. I was told the Grant Beach neighborhood north of downtown was "black", but I spent plenty of time driving through there as well as at the neighborhood's centerpiece, Grant Beach Park and Pool, and while there were black folks, it was a majority white experience. I guess if not for race, class has to be what is divisive.
My favorite part of the city of Springfield is the eastern side of downtown and the neighborhood of historic houses just east of downtown. There's a semi-urban, walkable neighborhood strip along National Ave just north of Missouri State University with a Chipotle, Panera, and other businesses. The area is centered around a historic district called "Walnut Street Historic District". Further west within walking distance, in actual downtown Springfield where I didn't get to spend any time, is a district of restaurants, bars, etc. which seem to be where younger and alternative people congregate. Downtown Springfield actually has an urban grocery store! www.bistromarket.net And for more general info on downtown Springfield: It's All Downtown - Springfield, MO
I'm not sure what else to say. Most of the suburban development in Springfield is located on the southeast side of town and is highly coveted by a certain set, just like with any town. They do have a great mall, Battlefield Mall. Macy's, Dillard's, JCPenney, Sears, Banana Republic, Express, Jos A Bank, Abecrombie etc. Battlefield Mall - Springfield, MO 65804 | Simon Malls
What Springfield has that Kansas City can't touch is natural surroundings, lack of ghetto, and more of a small-town environment.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. I just moved to Springfield from St. Louis last fall for school, and for the most part I really like it. My brother lived here for several years and I always enjoyed visiting him.
To me, Springfield is the perfect sized city -- big enough that it has pretty much everything you need, but small enough that it only takes about 15 minutes to get from one side of town to the other. Traffic can be a bit crazy though.
The only thing that bugs me about Springfield is the heavy Conservative/Christian vibe you get when you leave the college areas. Often on the MSU campus you'll see bearded men wearing overalls holding signs that say things like "marrying a divorced woman is adultery". Having said that, Springfield's culture is one of the strangest mixes of things I have ever seen. It ranges from the crazy Christians I just mentioned to really radical hippies weaving baskets on the sidewalk downtown. I've been downtown during a couple festivals at night and I always see a bizarre mix of people. But to me that's one of Springfield's charms. So, I don't think being gay in Springfield should be that big of a problem, especially depending on where you live (around MSU, Drury, and downtown). I was even shocked to see a rainbow flag outside a church in suburban Springfield. There are several gay bars across town, and I know of lots of gay people at MSU.
It's also a surprisingly hip town considering where it is. There's some cool stores downtown such s Bistro Market (already mentioned), really nice restaurants, weird clothing stores, etc. Plus there's the mall that has some pretty high-end stores.
So, over all, I recommend Springfield for those reasons. It's not the best town I've ever been to, but it's a pretty cool place to live I think.
The only thing that bugs me about Springfield is the heavy Conservative/Christian vibe you get when you leave the college areas. Often on the MSU campus you'll see bearded men wearing overalls holding signs that say things like "marrying a divorced woman is adultery".
^I would love to see that. That's a component of diversity I don't see very often and many others would rather have not be seen. Personally, I think Springfield has a homey, friendly vibe that I attribute to being a heavy conservative/Christian area (or just rural). Sort of a classic Americana. I like it. I'm glad places like that exist. I don't want every place to be the same or variety limited. I'd take Springfield over cities with huge ghettos anyday. That said, I'm not Christian, am probably more liberal than I care to admit, and have lived in KC all my life.
True Evangelical Christians are often some of the least friendly people you'll ever meet. The crazies on campus are not contributing to Springfield's friendly vibe, I can promise you that.
True Evangelical Christians are often some of the least friendly people you'll ever meet. The crazies on campus are not contributing to Springfield's friendly vibe, I can promise you that.
I have a gay friend whose family basically has their own hardcore Baptist church outside of Springfield on old leftover family acreage, which is actually very successful and they regularly congregate there from a 200 or so mile radius. There's diversity in the bunch too. Some are blue-collar, some are white-collar, some quite wealthy, others very humble, some Democrats, some Republicans, some college educated, some not, even examples of interracial marriage, and while I think their service is a bit out there, I can't say I've run into anybody unfriendly on those excursions. Quite the opposite.
I've also spent a lot of time living in rural eastern Oklahoma including spending time with Baptists, Pentecostals, Amish (maybe not necessarily evangelical, but still extreme), and never found any unfriendliness. Again, quite the opposite.
Where have you had your unfriendly experiences? And what's a "true evangelical"?
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