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First of all I must make sure that you understand..when myself or people like me say there is "nothing" to do downtown..you can take us at our literal word, or take it to mean that the things here are not up to par...figureatively speaking that is....with that being said...
I think i figured it out the problem ...
- up to par with what?
ATL, Miami, Jax...are on a WHOLE other level than Chicago, Baltimore, D.C. N.Y. etc...these are the cities that myself and Jimbo are comparing JAX too...I agree if you spent some time up north, you would have alot better appreciation of what we are talking about. Im not gonna go tit for tat with you on the downtown bar scene...ok..maybe there are more than 5 bars..but on a scale of one to ten, I give the downtown nightlife scene a 2 or 3...and only even that high because of the landing. And yes I know people live downtown...I actually have friends at the high rise on Ashley..i visit quite often, and its how i know firsthand about the blight of downtown.
- i have spent time up North. i've stayed in Chicago, NY, Cleveland, & Boston for 2+ weeks each, visiting friends. some much longer. of course i partook in the nightlife and activities downtown virtually every day. i plan on going back up North in a couple of months. does that count as spending time? yes, please don't go tit for tat. it's time consuming and i always win, b/c i end up linking everything to prove it.
And this new downtown initiative..again..you ignored my earlier question..the one about the better jacksonville plan, and the courthouse, and the general mismanagement, by the city leaders..which leads me to believe that they dont want downtown to grow..oh let me guess..you think its gonna be different this time?! Why because they have cool looking stickers this time?? Seriously you keep selling this pie in the sky, things will get better speech, but how? With what? walk around downtown, you would be hard pressed to see people who share your view...And I dont mean those few blocks by the courthouse, or right there at th.e landing, venture out a little bit..like Jimbo said..its laughable.
- i don't have any opinion of the Better Jax plan otherthan it could have been better, have different priorities. what "is going to be different this time"?, i don't follow that question. also, i haven't seen any stickers. my "things will get better" speech may be due to 2 things: rapid popualtion growth & perosnal knowledge of many, many things in the works that would benefit downtown. not to mention that out current mayor has said that for the remiander of his term he'll focus on downtown (which didn't win him any favors) and that we'll have a new mayor relatively soon that will probably be more progressive on this issue. some details can listed at your request. ok, so NOT counting people who live / work in 2 parts of downtown, it'd be hard to find anyone who shares my view? (ha) are you kidding? (1) why are you not counting those 2 parts (2) it would take me 5 minutes at lunch time to find someone. also, i'm not sure what's funny....what is "laughable"?
I tell ya what. FSU813 ..you pretty much made my point with this statement above...I mean..why do you think businesses would not cluster together in a downtown area, like they do in any other city? Or geee...maybe have more businesses to come in? I mean, come on its not like Downtown JAX is big by any means...wher are all the mom and pop shops? Whre is the vibrancy?
- i don't have to think, i know why. 1) certain property owners are content to sit on thier properties downtown, not do any work to them, and not rent them out but for higher than market prices....waiting for the values to up. 2) not that many people actaully live in downtown, as i stated before. this persuades people who are on the edge or cannot last long with out immeediate success to go elsewhere. 3) city leadership hasn't priortized downtown in the past. there are few initiatives, etc encouraging businesses to move there.
that being said, there has been an obvious uptick in development. and clustering is prefered, just not always doable. i can list details of this as well by request.
And half of downtown being located on Gate parkway? Are you serious?? from touchton to town center you have maybe a half dozen businesses or so...BCBS, thats about the most notable..wow..every city has burbs dude....and businesses build there, that has nothing to do with a vibrant downtown with mixed use areas.
- yes, perhaps missed all the various office buildings. I can go into detail if needed. Yes, other large cities expand like this as well......usually after the downtown is more developed. but, developers go where it's less expensive to build usually. even the FBI.
Finally, i see you chose to not comment on any fo your previous errors, except the number of bars.
First of all I must make sure that you understand..when myself or people like me say there is "nothing" to do downtown..you can take us at our literal word, or take it to mean that the things here are not up to par...figureatively speaking that is....with that being said...
I think i figured it out the problem ...
- up to par with what?
ATL, Miami, Jax...are on a WHOLE other level than Chicago, Baltimore, D.C. N.Y. etc...these are the cities that myself and Jimbo are comparing JAX too...I agree if you spent some time up north, you would have alot better appreciation of what we are talking about. Im not gonna go tit for tat with you on the downtown bar scene...ok..maybe there are more than 5 bars..but on a scale of one to ten, I give the downtown nightlife scene a 2 or 3...and only even that high because of the landing. And yes I know people live downtown...I actually have friends at the high rise on Ashley..i visit quite often, and its how i know firsthand about the blight of downtown.
- i have spent time up North. i've stayed in Chicago, NY, Cleveland, & Boston for 2+ weeks each, visiting friends. some much longer. of course i partook in the nightlife and activities downtown virtually every day. i plan on going back up North in a couple of months. does that count as spending time? yes, please don't go tit for tat. it's time consuming and i always win, b/c i end up linking everything to prove it.
And this new downtown initiative..again..you ignored my earlier question..the one about the better jacksonville plan, and the courthouse, and the general mismanagement, by the city leaders..which leads me to believe that they dont want downtown to grow..oh let me guess..you think its gonna be different this time?! Why because they have cool looking stickers this time?? Seriously you keep selling this pie in the sky, things will get better speech, but how? With what? walk around downtown, you would be hard pressed to see people who share your view...And I dont mean those few blocks by the courthouse, or right there at th.e landing, venture out a little bit..like Jimbo said..its laughable.
- i don't have any opinion of the Better Jax plan otherthan it could have been better, have different priorities. what "is going to be different this time"?, i don't follow that question. also, i haven't seen any stickers. my "things will get better" speech may be due to 2 things: rapid popualtion growth & perosnal knowledge of many, many things in the works that would benefit downtown. not to mention that out current mayor has said that for the remiander of his term he'll focus on downtown (which didn't win him any favors) and that we'll have a new mayor relatively soon that will probably be more progressive on this issue. some details can listed at your request. ok, so NOT counting people who live / work in 2 parts of downtown, it'd be hard to find anyone who shares my view? (ha) are you kidding? (1) why are you not counting those 2 parts (2) it would take me 5 minutes at lunch time to find someone. also, i'm not sure what's funny....what is "laughable"?
I tell ya what. FSU813 ..you pretty much made my point with this statement above...I mean..why do you think businesses would not cluster together in a downtown area, like they do in any other city? Or geee...maybe have more businesses to come in? I mean, come on its not like Downtown JAX is big by any means...wher are all the mom and pop shops? Whre is the vibrancy?
- i don't have to think, i know why. 1) certain property owners are content to sit on thier properties downtown, not do any work to them, and not rent them out but for higher than market prices....waiting for the values to up. 2) not that many people actaully live in downtown, as i stated before. this persuades people who are on the edge or cannot last long with out immeediate success to go elsewhere. 3) city leadership hasn't priortized downtown in the past. there are few initiatives, etc encouraging businesses to move there.
that being said, there has been an obvious uptick in development. and clustering is prefered, just not always doable. i can list details of this as well by request.
And half of downtown being located on Gate parkway? Are you serious?? from touchton to town center you have maybe a half dozen businesses or so...BCBS, thats about the most notable..wow..every city has burbs dude....and businesses build there, that has nothing to do with a vibrant downtown with mixed use areas.
- yes, perhaps missed all the various office buildings. I can go into detail if needed. Yes, other large cities expand like this as well......usually after the downtown is more developed. but, developers go where it's less expensive to build usually. even the FBI.
Finally, i see you chose to not comment on any fo your previous errors, except the number of bars.
FSU813
There really is no point going back and forth with you...as Jimbo noted you are WAAAAAYYYY OVER THE TOP! My work is done here! Anyone who comes across this thread, and actually takes the time to read my remarks VS. yours will see that you are nothing more than an excuse maker...you obviously understand and see all the problems with downtown JAX, but you blame it on this, or that, or people not living there, its the suburbs fault..BLAH BLAH BLAH...I have a feeling you could come up with excuses all day for this city...do you happen to work for the city council? If not you may wanna apply...you would make a great yes man
well said, dealmaker. i mean, i can understand a little bit of bias.... but come ON. take the blinders off, for sh*t's sake. just try to accept other peoples differing opinions without bashing them. it's a public forum, right? i dont care what you say, i wouldnt walk through any area of downtown jax at midnight without a police escort.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,763,471 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmileDoc
Tootsie- I would suggest that Jax has been "on the verge" for a long time. The city has SO much potential that I believe, having relocated here from Chicago, the natives either dont realize it or dont want it to change. I suspect it is a bit of both. As far as population growth, the area, compared to the vast majorit of the country, is BOOMING. Maybe not like Las Vegas or Austin, but they keep coming and the builders are starting to build again. Great climate, great beaches, great place. Sure it is a bit rough around the edges, but isnt that part of its charm? The port expansion will be huge for Jax, I call it the little engine that could. When they first announced that Jax got the Jags, I said "where on earth is Jacksonville, FL." Now I live here. This area will be DRAMATICALLY different in another 10 years because of what you and others have mentioned.
Maybe they saw what happened to Atlanta after 1996 which is now overcrowded, out of water, chokes on traffic and summer air pollution.
these are not 'excuses', it's what people call reasons.
an excuse would be giving a reason that tries to shift blame. you weren't trying to blame anyone, neither was I. i was simply explaining the situation to you, more in-depth than you are comfortable with it seems.
usually when someone bites off more than they can chew on here they typically end with, "whatever. i'm not going to argue with you. i don't care what you say, i know i'm right".
which is what you did.
which is laughable b/c while I can link almost everythng I state, provide further details, and have pointed out numerous errors or assumptions you've made (which, of course, you don't ackowledge or respond to), you can only say "no, you're wrong!", citing some kind of vague feeling/experience you have/had.
besides, why someone would compare Jax to one of a few major metro areas in the US is beyond me. NY, DC, Chicago? (ha) By those standards virtually any city will pale in comparison. Tip: in the future if you'd like to make this argument again, choose a city that is similar in size, descritption, & demographics as Jax. You'd have a valid comparison then.
Or, you could simply stick to what you know, and not guess.
Jacksonville is a sleepy suburban outpost. Why can't people just accept it and if that's what works for them, admit it, instead of pushing it as some sort of cool up and coming city? That's ridiculous, come on. Its just not a stylish, forward thinking place but for alot of people that's FINE....they've always loved it and always will. That's the way they like it.
these are not 'excuses', it's what people call reasons.
an excuse would be giving a reason that tries to shift blame. you weren't trying to blame anyone, neither was I. i was simply explaining the situation to you, more in-depth than you are comfortable with it seems.
usually when someone bites off more than they can chew on here they typically end with, "whatever. i'm not going to argue with you. i don't care what you say, i know i'm right".
which is what you did.
which is laughable b/c while I can link almost everythng I state, provide further details, and have pointed out numerous errors or assumptions you've made (which, of course, you don't ackowledge or respond to), you can only say "no, you're wrong!", citing some kind of vague feeling/experience you have/had.
besides, why someone would compare Jax to one of a few major metro areas in the US is beyond me. NY, DC, Chicago? (ha) By those standards virtually any city will pale in comparison. Tip: in the future if you'd like to make this argument again, choose a city that is similar in size, descritption, & demographics as Jax. You'd have a valid comparison then.
Or, you could simply stick to what you know, and not guess.
Bitten off more than I can chew? Is that some sort of reference to what I had for dinner last night? Because if you have been reading this thread..(like the rest of us) you would see that you are basically the only one who shares this theory of yours...and by the way..dont worry about all of us that see Jacksonville for what it is...we were once like you..and one day you will be like us...
But in the mean time stop lying to yourself! We can all see right thru you..you say things that make no sense..just for the record...just because you type something..does not make it true! For example..
"an excuse would be giving a reason that tries to shift blame. you weren't trying to blame anyone, neither was I"
THAT IS A BOLD FACE LIE MY FRIEND...YOU GAVE EXCUSES ABOUT GATE PARKWAY HAVING ALL THE BUSINESSES..YOU GAVE EXCUSES ABOUT BUSINESSES NOT BEING CLUSTERED TOGETHER..YOU GAVE EXCUSES ABOUT PEOPLE NOT LIVING DOWNTOWN, ...JUST GO BACK AND READ THRU SOME OF YOUR EXCUSES....YOU CAN WORD PLAY ALL YOU WANT..BUT AN EXCUSE IS AN EXCUSE!
Main Entry: 1ex·cuse
Pronunciation: \ik-ˈskyüz, imperatively often ˈskyüz\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): ex·cused; ex·cus·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French escuser,excuser, from Latin excusare, from ex- + causa cause, explanation
Date: 13th century 1 a: to make apology for b: to try to remove blame from 2: to forgive entirely or disregard as of trivial import : regard as excusable <graciously excused his tardiness> 3 a: to grant exemption or release to <was excused from jury duty> b: to allow to leave <excused the class> 4: to serve as excuse for :justify <nothing can excuse such neglect>
EXHIBIT 1 a ...to make apology for..something you do very well!
Ohhh...LEMME GUESS..HE'S GOING TO ARGUE WITH WEBSTER'S NOW! LMAO!!
and furthermore...here is some more of your B.S. you keep peddling off as truth..
besides, why someone would compare Jax to one of a few major metro areas in the US is beyond me. NY, DC, Chicago? (ha) By those standards virtually any city will pale in comparison. Tip: in the future if you'd like to make this argument again, choose a city that is similar in size, descritption, & demographics as Jax. You'd have a valid comparison then.
FIRST OF ALL I COMPARED JAX TO BALTIMORE AND WASHINGTON, WHICH ARE BOTH COMPARABLE TO JACKSONVILLE GENIUS..IN SIZE ? WELL GEE SINCE JAX IS THE LARGEST CITY IN THE LOWER 48 (LAND MASS WISE) HOW CAN I DO THAT GENIUS? (WHY DO I FEEL LIKE I HAVE TO TALK TO YOU LIKE A CHILD TO GET YOU TO UNDERSTAND ME?)
haha... this is too funny. you are spot on, dealmaker.... it is actually like trying to reason with a two year old. i guess there is a self-proclaimed "know it all" on every public forum that refuses to listen to anyone else's opinion. i'm not even gonna entertain the crazy anymore, but do enjoy sitting back and reading all of this stuff.
haha... this is too funny. you are spot on, dealmaker.... it is actually like trying to reason with a two year old. i guess there is a self-proclaimed "know it all" on every public forum that refuses to listen to anyone else's opinion. i'm not even gonna entertain the crazy anymore, but do enjoy sitting back and reading all of this stuff.
Jimbo...this guy dont know..im an ex car salesman...I can go back and forth all day
Bitten off more than I can chew? Is that some sort of reference to what I had for dinner last night? Because if you have been reading this thread..(like the rest of us) you would see that you are basically the only one who shares this theory of yours...and by the way..dont worry about all of us that see Jacksonville for what it is...we were once like you..and one day you will be like us..."
- let me know when you have something factual. i cite facts, you cite opinion. see the difference?
But in the mean time stop lying to yourself! We can all see right thru you..you say things that make no sense..just for the record...just because you type something..does not make it true! For example..
- still waiting
"an excuse would be giving a reason that tries to shift blame. you weren't trying to blame anyone, neither was I"
THAT IS A BOLD FACE LIE MY FRIEND...YOU GAVE EXCUSES ABOUT GATE PARKWAY HAVING ALL THE BUSINESSES..YOU GAVE EXCUSES ABOUT BUSINESSES NOT BEING CLUSTERED TOGETHER..YOU GAVE EXCUSES ABOUT PEOPLE NOT LIVING DOWNTOWN, ...JUST GO BACK AND READ THRU SOME OF YOUR EXCUSES....YOU CAN WORD PLAY ALL YOU WANT..BUT AN EXCUSE IS AN EXCUSE!"
- (ha). ok. let me explain this slowly. you were not blaming anyone/thing. neither was I.
therefore there can't be an excuse. i was giving you a reasons. Line (a) of the defeiniton spells this out. there has to be blma einvolved. neither one of us were assigning blame. one of the most frustrating things is talking with someone who honetsly thinks they know what they speak about, all the while you know that they don't quite grasp the concept. your misunderstanding of the word, even while giving the definition, is a prime example.
Main Entry: 1ex·cuse
Pronunciation: \ik-ˈskyüz, imperatively often ˈskyüz\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): ex·cused; ex·cus·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French escuser,excuser, from Latin excusare, from ex- + causa cause, explanation
Date: 13th century 1 a: to make apology for b: to try to remove blame from 2: to forgive entirely or disregard as of trivial import : regard as excusable <graciously excused his tardiness> 3 a: to grant exemption or release to <was excused from jury duty> b: to allow to leave <excused the class> 4: to serve as excuse for :justify <nothing can excuse such neglect>
EXHIBIT 1 a ...to make apology for..something you do very well!
Ohhh...LEMME GUESS..HE'S GOING TO ARGUE WITH WEBSTER'S NOW! LMAO!!
and furthermore...here is some more of your B.S. you keep peddling off as truth..
besides, why someone would compare Jax to one of a few major metro areas in the US is beyond me. NY, DC, Chicago? (ha) By those standards virtually any city will pale in comparison. Tip: in the future if you'd like to make this argument again, choose a city that is similar in size, descritption, & demographics as Jax. You'd have a valid comparison then.
FIRST OF ALL I COMPARED JAX TO BALTIMORE AND WASHINGTON, WHICH ARE BOTH COMPARABLE TO JACKSONVILLE GENIUS..IN SIZE ? WELL GEE SINCE JAX IS THE LARGEST CITY IN THE LOWER 48 (LAND MASS WISE) HOW CAN I DO THAT GENIUS? (WHY DO I FEEL LIKE I HAVE TO TALK TO YOU LIKE A CHILD TO GET YOU TO UNDERSTAND ME?)
- no, actually they are not comparbale in size. would you like me to link this for you?
yes, Jax does have the largest land mass (ha). This is not the size i am referring to. in fact, i did you a favor by listiong the three catogroires to compare in my previous post. another reading comp 101 error i guess.
speaking of errors, still no reference, acknowledgment, or amendment of all the various mistakes and misjudgements you made in your previous post. i pointed them all out to you, but it's as if not responding to them will make them all go away. since you don't acknowledge these erros, obvious as they are, i suppose you won't recognize any others. that's not good policy.
jimbo,
"know it all"? hardly. perhaps reading comp 101 wasn't your strenght either. i stated in a recent post in this thread that i don't claim that much about many areas, certains ones i do. Donwtown is one of them. I advise you to re-read the thread. While I systematically list, link, cite specific examples, and dispell others' assumptions of myself and other topics, i havn't received anything near that thorough in return.
just opinion. many ill-informed, at that. an an unwillingness to ackknowledge when someone else knows more about a certain topic than they do.
don't feel bad guys, it's part of my job, literally, to be "in the know" about these things.
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Are you serious?? from touchton to town center you have maybe a half dozen businesses or so...BCBS, thats about the most notable..wow..every city has burbs dude..
..and businesses build there, that has nothing to do with a vibrant downtown with mixed use areas.
1 a : to make apology for b : to try to remove blame from
