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Hi All,
We are about to purchase a house and requested an estimation on extra work required from the builder. The house, as is, has very small yard and we wish to have a bigger yard, leveled with the current small yard, and plan to use an engineered retaining wall in order to achieve this goal. The builder has plenty of excavated land/gravel to fill in the planned yard, basically from a neighbour lot.
We don't have the exact measurements , but based on the lot size - the wall will be around 100 feet long, and 10 feet high, more or less.
The estimation was shared with us and was also added to the overall house price. It is $35000, and seem outrageously high to us. The sales manager claims this is a risk, since the actual estimation might be higher, and he will also need to pay his engineer around 3K for certification.
Since additional lots have the same problem, the builder has done it before. I am attaching a picture similar to what the neighbours have in place.
Please help me to understand if the price is correct, and how complicated is it to do it ourselves after purchase - the permits, the fill, and the headache.
Really appreciate your help, Thank you!
Sam
Once the wall gets that big, an engineer is required. That is a big wall, and a lot of work. Its not something that is do it yourself, unless you have a lot of experience with retaining walls. $35K may not be that far out of line considering the size of the wall. That is a lot of earth to keep in place, and the ramifications of one done poorly could be way more than $35K.
Off the top of my head, and past retaining wall projects-
What you describe is probably around that price- and as you were made aware, the engineering and his stamp($$$) don't come cheap. The labor, equipment (truck[s], trackhoe, Bobcat) it all adds up very quickly.
And I've seen the consequences of retaining walls that size fail! It ain't pretty.
Done properly, there will also be foundation below the ground for this to support the desired wall. This is not visible and may make it misleading as to the amount of work and materials actually required.
100 feet long and 10 feet high? Yeah, I can see it costing that much pretty easily. There's got to be 5 figures in just the cost of the wall blocks I would think. There will be a lot of fill material to go in as well, a fair amount of excavating with machinery, and setting the blocks is still an entirely manual process so there's just a bunch of labor in this. Plus the cost of the engineer as noted.
And it's definitely something you want done extremely well the first time, because if it fails somehow it can easily be a bigger mess because you've brought in all that fill, which would then have to be moved out of the way to rebuild the wall.
I suspect that the "builder's estimate" is their way of saying they really don't want to do this. Frankly from their perspective these kinds of things do "snowball" and once they do it for one buyer then everyone wants it...
I also know that this kind of work can sometimes be done more easily / cheaply than "estimates" if one asks around for ideas from landscapers and excavation firms which often learn some of the tricks that builders typically overlook. Of course if the goal is merely more "play space" one can get by with using lower quality "fill" than if you are going to build a new house...
Be careful about the type of fill that is use and how it is placed. Remember that there is nothing bracing the exposed side of that wall, so if not done properly, it is not so much a question of "if" it will collapse, but rather "when".
The price is about right or at least in the ball park -- not out of line at all.
I only saw one picture, of the round patio. I priced getting a 75 foot long straight wall that would be four feet high and grow to about eight feet high, and square off and level my entire side and back corner of my lot. I'm in MD and FIVE years ago the quote was 30-thousand. (But my lot is an Ivyed and brush covered hillside at a steep 60-degree slope)
Like you I'm losing (what I consider) a fair amount of useable lot. But now I know why in the 49 years since the house has been built, none of the previous 4 owners leveled the lot. I HATE that I'm using the useable space and hope it won't hurt me at resale, but I can't see putting that kind of money into the house. Don't think I'd get the ROI that would be worth it to ME. I've lived with it that way for 10 years, so clearly it's not a necessity.
I did price having it done with timbers, which would be cheaper. My neighbor owns a big landscaping company and said he'd do it in timbers for 15-thou -- but, I'm still thinking not. (not in THIS economy)
Even had a landscape engineer come look at it. He said it COULD be done. But he wouldn't. Just didn't think it was worth it.
There is absolutely no return on investment with something like this. I have a small retaining wall that needs to be done in my backyard, only 2-3ft high and maybe 15-20ft long. I have had quotes approaching $10k, which I think is absolutely ridiculous. I am certain that this would never add $10k in value to my home, the only thing it might do is increase appeal if I was to sell. Not sure when landscaping became a lucrative business, don't see how people justify the prices.
To the O/P, you may want to check with your home insurance company, for a 10ft wall like that, there might be additional risk involved. Looks like an accident waiting to happen in my humble opinion.
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