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My house currently has a mix of wiring. Some outlets are "grounded" while others are not (old 2 prong style). There is a green cloth cabling with a black, white, and 1 unprotected copper wire cable going to every outlet (even the 2 prong ones). I also have wiring called "Narragansett Narax 10/2 with ground" going to other outlets. At the box there are a few wires coming from the breaker box tied to the baseboard water pipe above. All my 3 prong outlets test as being grounded properly with a tester but I think it's just because of this wire connected to the water pipe but I'm not sure. Regardless I don't think it is an acceptable way of properly grounding outlets. Everything else is extremely organized though with every wire labeled so I believe the previous owner knew what they were doing. When I had an inspection the guy said everything looked fine.
I'd like to update all the remaining 2 prong outlets to 3 (by buying new 3 prong outlets and connecting the copper wire thats tied back already ran to each outlet). I will probably just shut off the main and test with a multimeter to be safe before doing any work. I think I should fix the problem of being grounded to the water pipe too. I was thinking of adding a copper pipe outside and connecting it to the box for proper grounding. Has anyone done this? How difficult was it?
My house currently has a mix of wiring.
Some outlets are "grounded" while others are not (old 2 prong style).
There is a green cloth cabling with a black, white, and 1 unprotected copper wire...
At the box there are a few wires coming from the breaker box tied to the baseboard water pipe above.
You* should be fine changing the devices and attaching to this wire.
The ground wire gauge you have is probably small by today's standards but is still adequate.
At the panel end however... you* have more work to do.
The grounds and neutrals should all be terminated together INSIDE the panel
and ideally to terminal bars designed to fit inside there.
*The term "you" meaning a capable person; supervised or with experience.
My house currently has a mix of wiring. Some outlets are "grounded" while others are not (old 2 prong style). There is a green cloth cabling with a black, white, and 1 unprotected copper wire cable going to every outlet (even the 2 prong ones). I also have wiring called "Narragansett Narax 10/2 with ground" going to other outlets. At the box there are a few wires coming from the breaker box tied to the baseboard water pipe above. All my 3 prong outlets test as being grounded properly with a tester but I think it's just because of this wire connected to the water pipe but I'm not sure. Regardless I don't think it is an acceptable way of properly grounding outlets. Everything else is extremely organized though with every wire labeled so I believe the previous owner knew what they were doing. When I had an inspection the guy said everything looked fine.
I'd like to update all the remaining 2 prong outlets to 3 (by buying new 3 prong outlets and connecting the copper wire thats tied back already ran to each outlet). I will probably just shut off the main and test with a multimeter to be safe before doing any work. I think I should fix the problem of being grounded to the water pipe too. I was thinking of adding a copper pipe outside and connecting it to the box for proper grounding. Has anyone done this? How difficult was it?
Not an overwhelming task. 10/2??! Did the prior owner do welding inside the house? That is heavy wire. Most heavy cirecuits now use 12 guage wire and cheap houses use 14 guage everywhere. I am prone to overkill, but the only place i use 10 is for super heavy circuits or really really long runs.
Wiring to the pipe is no longer code, but it was done for decades and there are still people in the world. We did nto all die. If you have a ground that grounds, it is going ot be OK 90% of the time. Technically you need to ground only through the box and then to a copper grounding rod. However thousands of houses are grounded to the plumbing and they rarely kill anyone (more than rarely, probably equally likely to get hit by lightening, but it happens). If you are super safety oriented, you may want to put in GCFI outlets, or GFI breakers. It is overkill and expensive, but it does provide an added level of safety.
You need to make certain your mix of wiring does nto include aluminum wire, except for the service entrance. Aluminum can be dealt with, but it is usually better to just replace it.
WHile grounding is important, peaople get overly worried about it IMO. Look at the things in your house, How many have three prong cords? Not many for most people. Normally your electrical boxes, outlets and covers are all plastic. thus, there really are not many times when a grounded circuit becomes critical. However in those rare times, it is really important. On the toher hand, I have occasiionally shorted out an ungrounded circuit through a screwdriver and even once through my body and have never had the breaker or fuse fail to trip. Of course it it had failed, maybe I would be dead. (Even that is unlikely). So for short, I am not saying ignore the grounding requriement, but I woudl not get all panicky over what you have.
Get a good book. It is not rocket science. When you hire an electrician they frequently deposit a stoner kid at your house who barely graduated from high school, give him some general instrucions and leave. My guess is yu can do as well as stoner kid with a good book.
#10 copper is good for 30 amps maximum
#12 copper is good for 20 amps maximum
#14 copper is good for 15 amps maximum
I am surprised at some things that have 3 prongs cords, and equally surprised at the ones that only have 2. Most things that have 2 prong cords are also "double insulated" so there is a added level of protection.
Yep! ^^
#10 good for 30 amps probably for a large window a/C or a clothes dryer most likely. Welders call for 50 amp circuit as do electric ranges. Double insulated refers to insulated armatures in power tools which are also plastic or otherwise insulated where you'd normally hold it. Lamps need no ground ... i suppose if its a big metal pole lamp or other maybe it would be good to have.
All my 3 prong outlets test as being grounded properly with a tester
you could have jumpers at every recep from the ungrounded terminal to grounding terminal, and it would show as being properly wired, even though its not. i've seen this in old houses before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HouseKid
I'd like to update all the remaining 2 prong outlets to 3
this is considered "new work". you'll either need to run a cable with a grounding conductor to each recep location, or install a gfci on that circuit and call it day.
Thanks everyone for the tips. I shouldn't need to run a new cable to each outlet. As previously mentioned the wires running to the 2 prongs have the white and black connected as well as a copper line (ground i assume) that is "tied back." I have no clue why they wouldn't have just put in 3 prongs in the first place though (house was built in 1960 so maybe thats why?)
The main reason why I want to replace the outlets is because many of them are very loose. When I plug something in the plug falls out halfway, seems like a safety hazard IMO. I think the bigger gage wiring was due to a home addition in the 80's. They added a sunroom on and all the outlets out there are 3 prong and show as grounded. The house was previously 2000 sq feet before the addition and that cabling had to run to the complete opposite end of the house (from the basement).
The oldest wiring in the house are the green cloth cabling. As I mentioned before even that wiring has the white, black, and copper wiring. Everything else is newer and also has ground. Again.. no idea why they only went with 2 prong outlets since the 3rd copper cable is right there, just tied back.
when you replace the receptacles the ones that get heavy usage should have some better quality ones put there.
the best are hospital grade. you need two hands to unplug things sometimes with them and i find they are well worth the cost in areas that get heavy usage of things.
you can usually negotiate prices on them at a supply house that make them the same price or even less then a good commercial one would cost.
The tract home where I grew up had a copper ground running to each metal junction box...
I bought a bag of the short 6" green pigtails with the green grounding screw and replaced each outlet with a modern grounded outlet.
The boxes were tapped so the pigtail screwed right in.
Grounded outlets were actually less expensive then new two prong ungrounded outlets.
Bought an older house once where the owner gave me a shoebox of receipts... back in 1962 she paid an electrician to run copper grounds to the water pipe in the crawl space... the house had knob and tube with Edison fuses... never had any issues and the circuit tester showed ground.
Managed older units in a subsidized building... the HUD inspector required GFCI be installed in wet area locations and this was approved by the building department even though the circuits were only two wire with no ground.
The home I live in now only has grounded outlets in the garage, laundry and kitchen... no where else.
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 12-15-2012 at 08:02 PM..
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