Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm trying to take a plan of action. The house only has two prong outlets; it was built in the mid 1950's.
I pulled the outlet receptical, and notice that its a metal housing, there are five wires: your two black and two white wires and what appears to be a coppoer wire in the back. There are no green ground wires like on newer houses. I'm not totally sure what the back copper wire is, but I believe it grounds the metal box. Correct me if I'm wrong.
On a side note, the first outlet I looked at I noticed the back copper wire wasn't strapped down, but there is a large bolt at the back of the metal container that appears to be loose. I haven't looked at any other outlets to compare to, but I assume that that copper wire should be bolted to the metal housing?
Anyhow, is it a good idea to get specification grade receptacles? The reason I ask is I've read that the spec grade outlets receptacles have a metal plate on the back that connects the ground to bolts, which in turn will bolt to the metal housing. Basically it has a self grounding feature that grounds to the metal box. The residential grade (your average home outlet) receptacles do not have this feature.
Do any GFCI outlets have this self grounding feature? I can't seem to find any spec grade receptacles online.
I'm trying to do the right thing hear. Someone recommend I get one of those 3-prong to 2-prong adapters at the dollar store, but I don't know
First off, I'll tell you that I have never seen a specification grade outlet in a residential property. Probably way overkill for your use.
If you have a bare copper wire in the outlet junction box, it is likely a ground wire. The questions is IF it is a ground wire, AND, HOW its providing the ground. Basically you want to make sure the "ground" goes all the way back to the electrical panel.
You can easily check to see if it is a ground, and is working properly with a two wire circuit tester. If you touch one pin to the HOT wire, and the other to the copper wire, and you get 120 volts, then you have a ground. You can also see if the box itself is grounded the same way.
If it is a ground wire then you are good to go with a 3 prong outlet providing you connect the White, Black, and Bare or Green wires correctly.
If you are not comfortable working with live electricity (because it could kill you), then get an electrician to take a look at it for you. You can also just run a new circuit from the panel to wherever you want this new outlet.
Black is HOT
White is NEUTRAL
Green or Bare Wire is GROUND
Depending on the wiring the other common colors you might see will be Red, Blue, Yellow and in most cases they will also be Hot.
If looking at the typical 3 prong receptical face on (as if you are going to plug something into it) there will be two vertical slots on top of a roundish slot.
The left vertical slot will be larger then the right vertical slot and it will be the NEUTRAL slot.
The right vertical slot will be the HOT slot.
The roundish slot on the bottom will be the GROUND slot.
There were cheater plugs that turned two prong recepticals into three prong recepticals. They are dangerous and might even be illegal now. Stay away from them.
You might want to have an electrician check your wiring to be sure the bare copper wires in the boxes are ground wires which I suspect they are. If they are, then it is a relatively easy thing to replace the old two prong, ungrounded boxes with new 3 prong, grounded boxes.
I pulled the outlet receptical, and notice that its a metal housing, there are five wires: your two black and two white wires and what appears to be a copper wire in the back. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Bare copper is fine.
But instead of looking in the receptacle boxes...
go look at the panel to see what is coming out from there.
Assuming you have typical 1950's era Romex (which has no ground)...
the remedy and the ONLY remedy is to replace the wire going from the panel to the receptacles...
and then install regular resi grade devices.
Quote:
I'm trying to do the right thing hear.
Someone recommend I get one of those 3-prong to 2-prong adapters at the dollar store, but I don't know
A get by is to... Nope. There really is no "get by".
-----
ETA: All that said...
1) aside from a few outlets used by more sensitive electronics what you have is mostly just fine.
2) the problem with the old Romex is related to the insulation rather than the wire itself.
3) adding a circuit for 3 prong receptacles to serve the sensitive things is a practical short term "fix"
(until you're ready to do the whole change out you must do at some point)
Last edited by MrRational; 02-13-2012 at 07:40 AM..
Reason: All that said...
In some houses, they had metal conduit throughout. They sometimes grounded the terminations by using the metal box and then the conduit all the way back to the main panel. I have also seen set ups where they ran a bare coopper wire form the metal box to a copper or steel pipe to ground it.
You should figure out what you have before you do anything. Get a simple tester. Of your five wires, when they are all disconnected from the outlet, only one should be hot. If more than one is hot, then you have something wierd.
Assuming a normal system, it is very easy to wire in a new outlet. If you do not have a ground, you can use a GFCI whcih will give you some protections against a short, but will not provide a ground if there is no ground. If you do have a ground, the use of a GFCI is up to you. I like them and tend to put them in all over the place whether they are necessary or not. However many of those older metal boxes are too small to hold a GFCI. If you have the smaller metal outlet boxes, do not use the new style outlet at all (the ones with a rectangular hole in the cover plate). They will not fit and will usually short out to the box. I have seen people wrap them heavily in electical tape to avoid this, but that can be risky Althgouh there is no reason for the tape to wear though, I would not want nothing but tape preventing a short. The older small metal boxes are made for the old style outlet (cover plate has two small round holes.).
You can simply change out the two hole outlets for three hole outlets, but that is not providing you a grounded outlet unless you connect a ground. Oterhwise, you should mark the outlet "not grounded" This will allow you to plug in the appliance even though they will not be grounded. There are a few appliances that must be grounded. I cannot remember what they are, and they are unusual items that most people do not have. I have never owned an appliance that could nto function without a ground.
Another option is to just use three hole adapters. These can be grounded throught he faceplate screw if you ahve a gounded metal box.
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 38,770,610 times
Reputation: 7185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volpe Mar
I'm trying to take a plan of action. The house only has two prong outlets; it was built in the mid 1950's.
I pulled the outlet receptical, and notice that its a metal housing, there are five wires: your two black and two white wires and what appears to be a coppoer wire in the back. There are no green ground wires like on newer houses. I'm not totally sure what the back copper wire is, but I believe it grounds the metal box. Correct me if I'm wrong.
On a side note, the first outlet I looked at I noticed the back copper wire wasn't strapped down, but there is a large bolt at the back of the metal container that appears to be loose. I haven't looked at any other outlets to compare to, but I assume that that copper wire should be bolted to the metal housing?
Anyhow, is it a good idea to get specification grade receptacles? The reason I ask is I've read that the spec grade outlets receptacles have a metal plate on the back that connects the ground to bolts, which in turn will bolt to the metal housing. Basically it has a self grounding feature that grounds to the metal box. The residential grade (your average home outlet) receptacles do not have this feature.
Do any GFCI outlets have this self grounding feature? I can't seem to find any spec grade receptacles online.
I'm trying to do the right thing hear. Someone recommend I get one of those 3-prong to 2-prong adapters at the dollar store, but I don't know
In the 1950's the wall boxes they used were teeny, tiny galvanized things. You can fit a modern GFCI in there, but it will be a tight squeeze if anything is piggy-backed. I would be a little surprised to learn that your house is properly grounded, if it's grounded at all. It's difficult to find two-prong electrical receptacles - they are likely to be original or someone put them there for a reason.
For your personal safety, the best thing that you can do for the least money is install GFCI outlets. That's a great bit of very inexpensive technology that we enjoy in the modern era, but the problem with upgrading ungrounded electrical service in your house to GFCI is that your sensitive electronics will not be protected. A surge protector requires a ground connection to work properly - plugging a nice surge protector into an ungrounded three-prong or an adapter turns it into an expensive power strip. If you plan on having an entertainment system you may want to seriously consider running new, grounded power to the entertainment center and to your computer station. Another option may be to have all of your computer equipment running off of a UPS, although I'm not 100% that you would still enjoy surge protection...
Do surge protectors actaully work? I saw an article once that said that most of them do not trip fast enough to do any good.
How often do surges happen anyway? I have lived probably 20 years total in places with no ground. Never lost anything to a surge. When I have had grounded systems, I have never had a surge protector trip unless it was overloaded (which has nothing to do with gronding).
Are there statistics on how often surges actually damage things? I sure would like to have back all the money I have spent on surge protectors over the years.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
