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The M1 Carbine infantry rifle in WW2 is accurate over open sights out to 300+yards.
I have fired my M1 carbine (a Winchester made in early 1945) with reasonable accuracy out to 400 yards, but by the time it arrived,the little bullet was panting and wheezing so badly it scarcely had the energy to make the steel target go "ding." It IS a pistol cartridge, after all, slightly more powerful than the .357 magnum cartridge.
The M1 carbine is positively deadly out to about 200 yards, and a pretty serious threat out to 300.
It isn't quite accurate to call the carbine an "infantry rifle" because it was intended to replace the 1911 pistol that was normally carried by officers, and to provide extra close-in firepower for tankers, artillerymen, etc. The M-1 Garand, and the 1903 and 1903A3 Springfields, were the infantry rifles.
That is NOT to say that M1 carbines were never carried by infantrymen, however, because its light weight and 15-round detachable magazines made it quite popular. And once the select-fire M2 carbine, with its 30-round magazines, came out...
I'm not nearly the shooter you are, heck...I haven't shot in a number of years but I'd bet $100 that I could pick up my Dad's 7mm mag, practice an hour or less and make those same shots easily. Heck, give me a week to practice with a garand and I bet I'm making those shots over iron sights.
I'd rather bet a good steak or barbecue dinner. Its more enjoyable, dontcha know?
I've been reading this thread since it started and finally had to speak up. This has been amazing to see people claim some expertise about Oswald's marksmanship and the assassination that genuinely know little about it Go to JFK Lancer and read 100 or so of the books they recommend and then you might know a little about the complexities of what happened in Dealey Plaza and the investigation of those events.
I don't think Oswald was a particularly good shot. His shooting ability lessened during the time he was in the Marines to such an extent that he barely qualified after several tries. Then you have to consider the gun he owned. It was a WWII Italian surplus rifle with a badly adjusted scope and unknown, but assumed to be old, ammunition. There is no evidence he ever practiced shooting this particular rifle or any evidence of recent practice of any kind. A 60-some year old shooter with a known good weapon and plenty of practice is difficult to compare to the 24-year old Oswald and his circumstances. Oswald really wasn't a very good shot.
Some of the people claiming to have heard shots from the Grassy Knoll were right in front of it. One military man felt a bullet pass near his head. It is not reasonable to assume that all of these people were confused in the same way by the echo effects on the buildings around the plaza.
The Warren Commission was primarily concerned with getting a report out that would get the American people to accept their explanation so that no conspiracy would be on people's minds as LBJ went into the 1964 election. With the status of the people on the Commission, I would think it is easy to see that people would try to be helpful. Behind the scenes reports indicate that some witnesses were pressured to say what the Commission attorneys wanted them, to say. In other wards, just because it was said to the Commission, doesn't make it so.
Remember all the posts that claim this was an easy shot that anyone could make. The Warren Commission says that one shot missed entirely, chipped the curb on the other side of Dealey Plaza causing facial wounds to James T. Tague. If he missed one out of three shots that were so easy, something is wrong with this story.
When the FBI tried to recreate the shots using Oswald's rifle, they were unable to do it. It required working the bolt, aiming and hitting the target 3 times in 5.6 seconds. It was a really bad weapon to try such a feat.
That's enough about the shooting to leave plenty of doubt about what really happened.
One thing I noticed makes me lean toward some kind of conspiracy. Oswald went to his rooming house, got his jacket and pistol and left, walking away. Later, police officer J. D. Tippit was shot and killed less than a mile away (He was far away from his assigned patrol area). Later still, Oswald was apprehended at the Texas Theater. When I looked at maps, it looked like Oswald was moving away from the Texas Theater when he (supposedly) met up with Tippit. I wondered why until I started looking at lots of locations in Dallas and saw that Oswald was on a direct path to Jack Ruby's apartment. I don't KNOW that was his destination, but it looks SO odd, that it makes me think the two of them knew each other and had some involvement in the conspiracy together. I don't claim to know who did what, but that bit of truth makes me believe that Ruby and Oswald were both involved, and that, by definition, means there was a conspiracy.
The Warren Commission says that one shot missed entirely, chipped the curb on the other side of Dealey Plaza causing facial wounds to James T. Tague. If he missed one out of three shots that were so easy, something is wrong with this story.
I suppose you've never heard of the all-too-common phenomenon called "buck fever"? Heaven only knows that I have, and have seen it in real life. My friend, I'm not trying to start a cyber-fight over this. The chances are that none of us was in Dealy Plaza when Kennedy was assassinated, so the best we can do is rely on the "expert witnesses" and our own personal experiences. Two (count 'em, two) Marine Corps expert witnesses testified that LHO was, by civilian standards, an excellent shot.
The situtation, and the distances involved, show that any reasonably-competent marksman could have made the shots with the equipment (scoped Italian Carcano rifle and ammunition) LHO had. The only issue seems to be whether LHO, or any other reasonably-competent marksman, could have cycled the action of the Italian Carcano rifle fast enough to fire all the shots in the clearly-defined period of time. Having never seen, handled or fired an Italian Carcano rifle, I haven't the foggiest clue. However I DO KNOW that with my own [modern] bolt-action rifles, I can easily fire the requisite number of shots and place them precisely in the required areas.
With regards,
-- Nighteyes (a reasonably competent marksman out to about 800 yards)
A declassified document from the National Security Agency obtained by Last Reporter (see below) states that Kennedy assassin Lee Harvey Oswald's best friend in Russia said he could not have acted alone -- and that he was a terrible shot.
NSA Document: Oswald's Russian friend says O was poor shot and didn't act alone - Last Reporter (http://lastreporter.com/2011/02/nsa-doc-oswalds-russian-friend-said-o-was-poor-shot-and-didnt-act-alone/ - broken link)
Oswald was a U.S. Marine who attained Sharpshooter status. Who cares what an old Russian friend said?
Also, his shots from the Book Depository were'nt that difficult; he had a good rifle, a bird's eye view, a slow-moving target, perfect weather conditions, and a stationary bench on which to rest his weapon. I've visited the site of the JFK killing, and even stood at that window Oswald used. I'm about 90% sure I could've bulls-eyed at least one of those three shots he fired.
FBI marksmen re-enacting the shooting also had little trouble replicating the deed.
Oswald acted alone and killed JFK. It is merely human nature to try and think that such a heinous act must surely be part of a grand conspiracy, and not simply the doings of an insignificant, angry man.
Oswald was a U.S. Marine who attained Sharpshooter status. Who cares what an old Russian friend said?
Also, his shots from the Book Depository were'nt that difficult; he had a good rifle, a bird's eye view, a slow-moving target, perfect weather conditions, and a stationary bench on which to rest his weapon. I've visited the site of the JFK killing, and even stood at that window Oswald used. I'm about 90% sure I could've bulls-eyed at least one of those three shots he fired.
FBI marksmen re-enacting the shooting also had little trouble replicating the deed.
Oswald acted alone and killed JFK. It is merely human nature to try and think that such a heinous act must surely be part of a grand conspiracy, and not simply the doings of an insignificant, angry man.
(Repeating myself) While Oswald had at one point qualified as Sharpshooter, his last qualification (4 years before the assassination) was just barely enough to qualify as a Marksman, and it took multiple tries to pass at all. It is complete irrelevant if you could have made the shot. The fact is that FBI rifle experts as well as other shooting experts had a great deal of trouble replicating those 3 shots in 5.6 seconds. Oswald had a lousy rifle that was 20 years old with vintage ammo, a scope so badly misaligned that it had to be repaired before the FBI tested it. Two shims on the scope mounts were missing. Unbiased research indicates that, for a variety of reasons, more than one person was involved.
(Repeating myself) While Oswald had at one point qualified as Sharpshooter, his last qualification (4 years before the assassination) was just barely enough to qualify as a Marksman, and it took multiple tries to pass at all. It is complete irrelevant if you could have made the shot. The fact is that FBI rifle experts as well as other shooting experts had a great deal of trouble replicating those 3 shots in 5.6 seconds. Oswald had a lousy rifle that was 20 years old with vintage ammo, a scope so badly misaligned that it had to be repaired before the FBI tested it. Two shims on the scope mounts were missing. Unbiased research indicates that, for a variety of reasons, more than one person was involved.
And this perhaps is the issues with consipracy theories - the "facts" that keep on getting repeated and repeated are incorrect, or at best misassumptions. This is the problem, people create a consipiracy theory first, then they "create" facts, or presume facts, to fit into their mold of the consipiracy theory. It's also no accident, and ironic, that the "facts" from one consipiracy theory sect (Russians killed Kennedy, proof says Oswald was a commie spy) conflicts with the "facts" from a different conpiracy theory sect (CIA killed Kennedy, proof says Osawald was working for an internal secret branch of the US government):
"8.2.7 The three shots were made in under six seconds.
Since Connally reacted to the Magic Bullet eight-tenths of a second af- ter JFK (so far as they could see in the Z-film), the WC determined two possible times for the shot. They said the unambiguous head shot there- fore occurred from 4.8 to 5.6 seconds later. This is where the six-sec- ond figure comes from. They also said another shot missed, but they weren't sure whether it came first, second, or third in the sequence. They argued the merits of all three scenarios. If the second shot was the miss, the 4.8 to 5.6 seconds would be the overall time for all three shots. If the first or third shot was the miss, the minimum time to reload the rifle (2.3 seconds) had to be added to the overall time, giving a min- imum time for all three shots of from 7.1 to 7.9 seconds. Much study has now determined the first shot to be the miss. Furthermore, the am- biguity about the time of the Magic Bullet has been resolved. At about the time JFK reacts to the shot, the lapel of Connally's suit coat flips forward. Dr. Lattimer has proven experimentally that this could only have been caused by a tumbling bullet. Thus, 5.6 seconds becomes the differential between the Magic Bullet and the head shot, with the over- all minimum for the three shots established at about eight seconds.
8.2.2 Oswald's rifle had a misaligned scope.
True. But it is not known whether the scope was out of alignment be- fore the assassination, or after, either from Oswald jamming the gun be- tween boxes, or by police mishandling. The scope was slightly misaligned down and left which, if it had been misaligned before the assassination, may have aided Oswald in hitting JFK, who was moving up and right across Oswald's field of view for the last two shots.
It's possible Oswald did not use the side-mounted scope, relying in- stead on the iron sights on top of the weapon. He may also have used the scope for the first shot, missed, and then switched to the sights.
8.1.3 Oswald could not have made the shots.
False. Two points enter in: Oswald's skill and the difficulty of the shots. Oswald's marksmanship twice passed the Marine Corps requirements. By their standards, he was an average shot, but he was more than quali- fied to use a gun and hit a target. The difficulty of the shots has been overstated. Dealey Plaza is smaller than it appears in photographs or film. Oswald's longest shot was eighty-eight yards to the target. The limousine was moving slowly past Oswald when the first shot was fired. The car turned slightly to go down the inclined portion of the street, moving slowly up and to the right across Oswald's field of view when the second and third shots were fired. Despite the relative ease of the shots, Oswald hit the presumed target (JFK's head) only once out of three attempts.
Oswald was put up to it. I believe he was telling the truth when he said he was just a patsy. Who was really behind it? Maybe we'll never know, although I don't see why someone can't tell us now, all these years later. We wouldn't start a nuclear war with Cuba now.
But a patsy of who is the real question;his idealogy which he learned too late or was he always thinkig of himslef as a vistim like mnay and balmig his actions on other life experiences.Was it just a excuse? I the end why JFK is such a good conspracy is the mna himself and his assocaitions with the Mob;with trying to assinate castro;being president i the first paloce or his perosnal habits. Its kind of like when a mob guy is murder the suspect list can be long or it can be what it looks like a lone gunamn who is perhaps the most dangerous to a prewdient or other public offical as the secret service and even hitler maintained.Conspiracy are muchy hard to carry out and to prevent ebcause of too mnay mouths.
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It IS a pistol cartridge, after all, slightly more powerful than the .357 magnum cartridge.
