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As a city dweller for all my adult life, I would like to respond to this. My first question is, who "lectured" you all to live in dense cities? I've never heard that before, and I don't know any city dweller who would say a thing like that. I'd love to know the source of this statement.
I'd also like to say that we city dwellers realize that this lifestyle is not for everyone. Families usually gravitate to the suburbs, and country people prefer the rural lifestyle. And that's OK. Live where you like and move if you don't. That's the American way. No one's trying to force anyone else to live in dense cities.
I got exactly what he was saying and have the same sentiment myself. I think this is the crux of the OPs problem and a fundamental disconnect between rural and urban America. There's quite a bit of preaching, especially with urbanites on here, about the environmental benefits of car free urban lifestyles without so much distance between places. Their point is valid; however 1. A couple long haul flights can outdo any benefits from being car free and urbanites are more likely to fly.
But more importantly 2. Living in a dense urban area without a car really limits a persons exposure to 'wild', undeveloped land. So what ends up happening is that urbanites, especially those in large metros without cars, are only exposed to the urban areas where they live and the more touristy locations that they may fly to. So what do urbanites see? They see air pollution, trash along storm water ways, congestion pains of underbuilding for how many people are in the area, and habitat loss from development. Their other feed for what the environment is like comes from news agencies, which by and large focus on environmental problems, not what's going right in the environment.
What this leads to is a world view that theirs this giant list of problems that are only getting worse; solutions aren't being developed fast enough. This then leads to the theory that humans are incredibly destructive and there's way too many humans on the earth. This overpopulated perspective is overwhelmingly held by urban people alone!
The problem is these urbanites really don't have their finger on the pulse of what's actually happening in the 96% of the mainland US which is still undeveloped. They don't realise that a lot of their problems are localised environmental problems, not world wide problems. For instance habitat loss from development is a moot point for the US as a whole, but it IS a problem for those whose only habitat they see goes away in their small area they are exposed to. They don't have a scale for how big the world really is, how many millions and millions of acres there are of wilderness landscapes across the globe, and how things are improving out in these wilderness areas. They don't see the successful reintroduction of moose and elk across the US. They don't see the forests saved from wildfire.
The problem then, is that instead of creative solution finding to mitigate human effects on the earth, they develop this incredibly negative, fatalistic approach that humanity is a parasite, and this REALLY ticks off people and poisons the credibility of the entire environmental movement, which leads to LESS mitigation and action, rather than more.
The problem then, is that instead of creative solution finding to mitigate human effects on the earth, they develop this incredibly negative, fatalistic approach that humanity is a parasite, and this REALLY ticks off people and poisons the credibility of the entire environmental movement, which leads to LESS mitigation and action, rather than more.
I don't know if malls and movie theaters will go away entirely. For example the big threat to Amazon's business model will be shipping costs.
When the time comes that fuel prices rise sharply... this will make malls and stores more attractive to people again I think. I know I personally only use online shopping for just some things. If it is something that is inexpensive and I am pretty certain that I will not be wanting to return it, I purchase it online.
If it is something that I think I might have to return, I purchase it from a store so I don't have to pay shipping costs to send it back.
As for working from home, I am not sure why that was never more common before the corona virus. I think part of the reason was companies have had concerns about security (being the target for hacking) and I think the other thing was they just wanted to keep an eye on their employees.... micro manage them and all that.
As for automation... I see that coming in the future, but how much we automate depends on whether we have enough energy resources to do it. And if we do have enough energy resources, we also need to improve our energy infrastructure to provide for that increased demand.
I think malls will be done for the most part, movie theaters not so much. Unless you have a projection wall, nothing beats a theater setting. No amount of idiots texting can fully take away from that.
There may be numerous articles by urbanites who think everybody should live that way, but personally I've never seen them and I don't share that sentiment. Also, I think that it would be wrong to assume that the opinions of a few finger-wagging moralists represent the views of every urban dweller everywhere. They don't, and they certainly don't represent my views. We need our cities, but we need our open spaces, too.
p.s. I would like to see one of these articles that claim everyone should live in dense cities. Anybody got a link?
Last edited by Bayarea4; 04-23-2020 at 03:17 PM..
Reason: to add a thought
COVID19 actually saved more lives than it kills. The number of people that could've been dead from normal way of death dropped down significantly. There are some 15k death each month from auto accidents diminished. Gang violence, gun deaths ways down. School shootings gone. While we all loathe being stuck indoors, COVID19 maybe what the human civilization needed to reflect on what changes we need to make once this pandemic is over.
If there's anything good about COVID-19, I'd say it is cleaner air. Now everyone can see the impact that carbon emissions from automobiles have on our quality of life.
If there's anything good about COVID-19, I'd say it is cleaner air. Now everyone can see the impact that carbon emissions from automobiles have on our quality of life.
The big problem is a lot of us don't live in areas where we can make this sustainable after Covid. I'm not a denier, or a skeptic, just a realist
I got exactly what he was saying and have the same sentiment myself. I think this is the crux of the OPs problem and a fundamental disconnect between rural and urban America. There's quite a bit of preaching, especially with urbanites on here, about the environmental benefits of car free urban lifestyles without so much distance between places. Their point is valid; however 1. A couple long haul flights can outdo any benefits from being car free and urbanites are more likely to fly.
But more importantly 2. Living in a dense urban area without a car really limits a persons exposure to 'wild', undeveloped land. So what ends up happening is that urbanites, especially those in large metros without cars, are only exposed to the urban areas where they live and the more touristy locations that they may fly to. So what do urbanites see? They see air pollution, trash along storm water ways, congestion pains of underbuilding for how many people are in the area, and habitat loss from development. Their other feed for what the environment is like comes from news agencies, which by and large focus on environmental problems, not what's going right in the environment.
What this leads to is a world view that theirs this giant list of problems that are only getting worse; solutions aren't being developed fast enough. This then leads to the theory that humans are incredibly destructive and there's way too many humans on the earth. This overpopulated perspective is overwhelmingly held by urban people alone!
The problem is these urbanites really don't have their finger on the pulse of what's actually happening in the 96% of the mainland US which is still undeveloped. They don't realise that a lot of their problems are localised environmental problems, not world wide problems. For instance habitat loss from development is a moot point for the US as a whole, but it IS a problem for those whose only habitat they see goes away in their small area they are exposed to. They don't have a scale for how big the world really is, how many millions and millions of acres there are of wilderness landscapes across the globe, and how things are improving out in these wilderness areas. They don't see the successful reintroduction of moose and elk across the US. They don't see the forests saved from wildfire.
The problem then, is that instead of creative solution finding to mitigate human effects on the earth, they develop this incredibly negative, fatalistic approach that humanity is a parasite, and this REALLY ticks off people and poisons the credibility of the entire environmental movement, which leads to LESS mitigation and action, rather than more.
Well said exactly what I see. I see neither of us got through to this poster how ever he is asking to see articles like this. I believe him when he says he does not feel this way but when he has to be shown articles to understand our point, I doubt his sincerity or open mind or awareness of the world at large around him
The big problem is a lot of us don't live in areas where we can make this sustainable after Covid. I'm not a denier, or a skeptic, just a realist
Oh, I agree completely. The clean air won't last, but at least there is a small silver lining to this dark cloud. Also, I have been encouraged by all the many generous, kind and selfless acts that are being reported in the news these days.
If there's anything good about COVID-19, I'd say it is cleaner air. Now everyone can see the impact that carbon emissions from automobiles have on our quality of life.
And everyone can see the impact of not having cars , it sucks.
Paganism is a dead duck, we don't worship the earth.
It isn't God.
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