If Bernie's Plan for Free Tuition Was Approved...? (interview, wage, healthcare)
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If elected President, one of the things Senator Sanders would like to do is have government paid tuition for all public universities and colleges. I do not want to debate the idea or the costs...
The question I have is what would become of the private universities and colleges- Ivy League schools like Yale, Harvard... Religious private universities and colleges that are around the country... medical universities.... and others.
It would seem to me that their enrollments would drop appreciably. With a large drop in revenue, could they not only stay afloat but continue to provide the level of education they currently enjoy?
Is it possible it would destroy the private education industry in this country?
Would this be a good thing when trying to train people to be the best and the brightest?
If elected President, one of the things Senator Sanders would like to do is have government paid tuition for all public universities and colleges. I do not want to debate the idea or the costs...
The question I have is what would become of the private universities and colleges- Ivy League schools like Yale, Harvard... Religious private universities and colleges that are around the country... medical universities.... and others.
It would seem to me that their enrollments would drop appreciably. With a large drop in revenue, could they not only stay afloat but continue to provide the level of education they currently enjoy?
Is it possible it would destroy the private education industry in this country?
Would this be a good thing when trying to train people to be the best and the brightest?
The elite colleges and Universities would be just fine. Demand will still be high based on the perceived value of attendance. And they provide large amounts of financial aid for qualified student with demonstrated need. Their huge endowments don't hurt either.
Public universities would get a much higher number applications, but unless they are currently under enrolled the number who are offered admittance would stay the same. If future state funding allowed them to build new facilities to serve more students, then those numbers would change and could impact the viability of the lower tier privates.
It's already much cheaper to go to an in-state public institution than a private institution. While the numbers would change some, and some private institutions would fail, most would continue on as before. If a degree from Harvard was worth $nnn,nnn before, it would arguably be worth much more after the market is flooded by people with "free" public degrees.
Good, reputable, private colleges and universities are in no danger.
My problem with Bernie's plan is that it only applies to academic degrees at "public universities and colleges". Keep in mind that I have such a degree, a Masters in Civil Engineering. Right now about 40% of Americans have a college degree (2-year associates or above). With a "free" degree available (1) more would try, so say the percentage eventually gets up to 55%.
As for the remaining 45%, well, the reality is that a significant portion of the population just doesn't have what it takes to acquire a college degree. I'm not saying they are dumb or of lesser quality, just that their skills lie elsewhere. I have relatives and friends who could never survive in an academic college setting. Many barely survived high school, and a few tried and failed at community college. Graduating with an academic degree would be impossible and pointless for them. Many are languishing in factories or service-level jobs, but some found their way to a trade school, learned a useful skill, and are flourishing at life. Turns out the guy I tutored in high school who barely squeaked by in algebra is brilliant at metalworking and makes more than I do. How do these people fit in with Bernie's plan?
Also, Bernie says this "free" college can be paid for with a simple trade tax on Wall Street Speculators, but let's get realistic... basic taxes would have to go up to cover everything he wants to implement. Back to my problem... assuming basic taxes go up on everyone, that means the blue-collar worker out there (the ones who wouldn't be able to finish a college degree) will basically be paying to educate the people who will eventually be their boss. That just doesn't seem right.
If Bernie would expand his program to include technical schools teaching useful trades like welding, equipment operation, pipe fitting, etc., then I'd be all for it. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any "public" technical schools. I may be wrong, but I believe all are private.
Note (1): Only the tuition portion of the costs of going to college is free. Students will still have to somehow find money for insanely expensive books and mandatory fees required for classes, plus money for housing, food, clothes, entertainment, etc. while taking classes instead of working. Calling any form of college education "free" is laughable.
I wonder how valuable a degree from a "free" university would be?
There will always be the prestige of a degree from a Ivy League school but if public colleges become free I think a degree from one of them will be somewhat cheapened.
I am very proud that I was able to knuckle down in college to earn my degree and work my butt off when I wasn't in class to pay for it and graduate without a penny of student debt. I am very proud of that accomplishment.
People get so much for free now a days and anything given for free usually doesn't hold much value compared to something that had to be worked for.
The University of Phoenix is a running punchline for example and a degree from there doesn't seem to hold as much value or prestige.
I wonder if a degree from the "free" colleges of Bernies' dreams would hold much weight when going for a job interview?
I think it is important for people to work toward achieving something and then it is so much more valuable to them.
The better question is, what if the student fails? Do the taxpayers just eat the tuition or, will the student have to pay it back. We ARE talking about billions here.....
No. People would still be willing to pay for prestige. Students who couldn't afford to pay would still apply for scholarships, knowing that employers prefer Harvard, Yale and Princeton grads.
I think the answers are probably right. There are reasons why people go to better universities and it has little to do with money. I was just thinking if a public school was free maybe it would turn some that way.
The better question is, what if the student fails? Do the taxpayers just eat the tuition or, will the student have to pay it back. We ARE talking about billions here.....
What happens when high school kids drop out? Do the taxpayers eat the tuition, or do the students pay it back?
It seems to me that both of the following are true:
1. Most high school graduates now either go to college or want to go to college.
2. There are broad societal benefits to having a more educated populace.
Both of the above points are good reasons to at least desire some sort of public college education that is either free or extremely affordable. We already have free public education through high school, and that has been unquestionably successful on the whole. A lot of tax dollars go to paying for our current public education system, but it is the sort of thing that benefits almost everyone. If we didn't have public education, families would either need to pay for education themselves or forgo education. The same dynamic would seem to extend to college education. Yes, it will be expensive, but it will eliminate a major expense for many people and produce effects that benefit all of society.
Last edited by Wittgenstein's Ghost; 03-18-2016 at 12:10 PM..
Most other first world countries have free higher education as well as free healthcare for their population. I think some of them even give students a living stipend while they're studying. Seems we should be able to see how they do it.
I'm appalled at how society allows these sorts of burdens put on folks when they can least afford it. Students have to pay up front to get a college education or struggle to earn the money at a low wage job since they don't have the degree yet. They start out with huge debt loads at a time of life when they can't afford it and don't really have any idea of what they're getting into. All of them are under twenty and their brains haven't even fully developed yet, most of them are still in the kryptonite state of development and are unable to imagine dire consequences. The 'it can't happen to me' stage, I'm sure there's a technical word for it, but kids at that stage are making decisions which will affect them financially for decades if not longer.
Another society push is for folks to have ungawdly expensive weddings, which seems to me to be another indication of sickness in the society.
If I had kids going to college, I'd give them a travel atlas and ask them which country they wanted to learn in. It would be so much less expensive to send them to a foreign country than to send them to college. They would also learn a lot more than just the book work, too.
Most other first world countries have free higher education as well as free healthcare for their population. I think some of them even give students a living stipend while they're studying. Seems we should be able to see how they do it.
I'm appalled at how society allows these sorts of burdens put on folks when they can least afford it. Students have to pay up front to get a college education or struggle to earn the money at a low wage job since they don't have the degree yet. They start out with huge debt loads at a time of life when they can't afford it and don't really have any idea of what they're getting into. All of them are under twenty and their brains haven't even fully developed yet, most of them are still in the kryptonite state of development and are unable to imagine dire consequences. The 'it can't happen to me' stage, I'm sure there's a technical word for it, but kids at that stage are making decisions which will affect them financially for decades if not longer.
Another society push is for folks to have ungawdly expensive weddings, which seems to me to be another indication of sickness in the society.
If I had kids going to college, I'd give them a travel atlas and ask them which country they wanted to learn in. It would be so much less expensive to send them to a foreign country than to send them to college. They would also learn a lot more than just the book work, too.
What do you mean, "we should be able to see how they do it"? How they do it is by taxing their citizens through the nose. If you want "free" stuff, you have to pay for it. Has Bernie ever said anything about how he plans to pull off this granting of "free" stuff to the nation? My impression is that he's good at dreaming, not so good at the funding and execution.
You'd have to do a lot more than that. You'd have to find a school with a strong foreign language program and make sure they learned as much as they could and achieved a high level of proficiency. This likely would involve participation in a summer abroad program or a semester on an international student exchange program. Again, getting "free" stuff involves either paying for it through taxes, or if you want to access another country's free stuff, putting in a lot of work to learn a foreign language well enough to do undergraduate work in it.
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